A couple bugs

[RPMiller]

Some of these are not really bugs so much as missing elements for the WG.

1. Even though Display Active Points on abilities is unchecked, when a Compound Power is built it defaults to showing the Active Points.
2. After creating a Clairsentience power with both Hearing and Sight Groups, then saving, closing and reopening character, the Sight Group displayed as Unknown Group.
3. When buying Only Works Against [Limited Type Of Attack] on Damage Reduction, the Display value is acting strange. When I try to change [Limited Type Of Attack] to a value it accepts the first character and then jumps to Options. Also, when changing Options first it doesn't change the display. I'm not sure how these fields are supposed to work together. When the window first opens Options is selected giving the impression that changing this will change the display, but it doesn't.
4. Paste on the Edit menu in Compound Power doesn't work when a power is copied from the Powers tab. Is it supposed to, or is that only for copying and pasting in the Compound Power window?
5. Duplication - Cannot Recombine should be listed under Limitations not Advantages
6. Increased Arc Of Perception (360 Degrees) - It lists Danger Sense multiple times under Adders. It is missing some of the senses as options to select.
7. Detect - When buying Adders the adder doesn't "move" to the top of the list until another adder is purchased. Different from other powers like Darkness.
8. Not a bug, but thought I would mention it - Extra-Dimensional Movement is being listed after Extra Limbs.
9. Extra-Dimensional Movement - Area Of Effect is not available under Advantages. Steve used it in his example.
10. Extra-Dimensional Movement - Gate is not available under Limitations (5th Ed. pg. 111 says that you can have it, and it is in Steve's example, I even added Usable As Attack, and it still was missing)
11. Extra-Dimensional Movement - Advantages are being ordered from low to high value.
12. Extra-Dimensional Movement - The cost is 5 points to high for Related Group of Dimensions, Any Location and Any Dimension, Any Location.
13. Understanding that HD will reposition itself in the center of the screen if any part is beyond the edge, it is also doing it when it has been tiled on the screen. Thus, no part is past the edge, but it is touching it. Anyway, to adjust that?
14. Charges - When selecting 1 Continuing Charge lasting 1 Hour the text displays as "1 Continuing Charges lasting 1 Hour each".
15. Healing - There is no option to add Simplified to the Healing type. Maybe a drop-down for the Description?
16. Healing - There is no option for Regeneration. (WG pg 15)
17. Healing - 5th Ed. Pg 120 If Regeneration is selected it should automatically add Advantages and Limitations per the description.
18. Healing - A Limitation of Extra Time + Increased Time Increment (# BODY/Day) should be added.

[Simon]

1. Try restarting after you change the setting under App Prefs.

2. Fixed.

3. Fixed.

4.

5. Fixed.

6. Likely because you purchased Danger Sense multiple times, creating multiple new "senses" for that character. Increased Arc can be applied to any of them individually, so they are each listed individually. The senses that are not listed are those senses which already have Increased Arc at the same level being purchased (or better). This includes any senses assigned to sense groups that have been selected.

7. Not a bug.

8. Because "Extra-" comes after "Extra " alphabetically.

9. Until Steve specifically says otherwise, AOE is not valid for Extra Dimensional Movement that is not Usable As an Attack. The example is an error.

10. Use a Custom Modifier.

11. The same way they are everywhere else throughout the application.

12. No it's not.

13. Nope.

14. Fixed.

15. Simplified Healing does not change the way the Power is purchased or the way the Power is displayed. It is solely a matter of how the Power is used in-game. This puts it beyond the purview of HD.

16. Regeneration is a modified form of Healing (per FREd) which is simply Healing with certain pre-defined Modifiers applied to it. Apply the modifiers mentioned in FREd (including the special Extra Time -- Regen only) and you will have the Power as it is defined in FREd, with the appropriate display.

17. Absolutely not.

18. I have no idea what you're talking about. There is an Increased Time modifier already present (two of them, in fact, due to the different values for Regen.).

[RPMiller]

Here's a couple more:
1. Images - When you click on an additional Sense group under Adders, it replaces Hearing Group under options. You then have to add Hearing again.
2. Images - Unable to edit the PER Rolls to display as only -#. I make the edit change, but it doesn't save it.
3. HKA - STR Minimum is not available anywhere, even after selecting Real Weapon.
4. RKA - STR Minimum is not available anywhere, even after selecting Real Weapon.
5. Shape Shift - Similar problem to Images, when you click an additional sense under adders it becomes the Option. You then have to add Hearing.
6. Skills (bought as powers) - The Roll initially shows as if it were a regular skill. After you save it, it drops the value to what it would be as a power.
7. Compound Powers - When powers are bought as part of a compound power, even when Show Active Cost is turned off, it still shows the active cost.

[Simon]

1. I've got this fixed now so that it works the way it was supposed to: when you select a non-targeting sense group for the main option and then select a targeting sense group as an adder, it will switch the two around, so that the costs work out the way they're supposed to (this is according to the rules).

2. Fixed. This error was actually stemming from the same source as (1)...a problem with the caching of results for some of the operations.

3. STR Minimum is not available on the Superheroic templates (per Steve).

4. See (3).

5. Also fixed...the problem existed at the base/parent class level and affected all Sense Affecting Powers. It has been fixed across the board.

6. I'm afraid you've lost me here...the roll for Skills bought as Powers is the same as the roll for Skills bought as Skills. The only time the roll changes is when levels are applied, when the Skill is made a Familiarity/Everyman Skill, or when the Focus Limitation is applied to the Skill. In all cases, I show HD as displaying the proper roll both in the Skill dialog as well as in the purchase list.

7. I'm not showing this behavior at all....can you verify your steps?

[RPMiller]

Originally posted by Simon
6. I'm afraid you've lost me here...the roll for Skills bought as Powers is the same as the roll for Skills bought as Skills. The only time the roll changes is when levels are applied, when the Skill is made a Familiarity/Everyman Skill, or when the Focus Limitation is applied to the Skill. In all cases, I show HD as displaying the proper roll both in the Skill dialog as well as in the purchase list.

7. I'm not showing this behavior at all....can you verify your steps? 6. Let's see. Ok, when I add a skill under the powers list, the Skill Rolll shows as -11. I want that to be -14 so I increase it to that amount or +3 points. I click ok, and the skill now displays as -11. I reopen the skill and increase it to -14 and click ok. Now it is fine. In seems like it is treated like a regular skill at first, and then drops down to a familiarity base after adding it to the powers list.

7. Sure can. I started a new character using the Superheroic template. Turn off Show Active Cost in preferences. Save, Close and Reopen the character per your suggestion in another thread. Check to make sure it is still set, it is. I add a new compound power. I add EB to it. I add Focus OAF to change the cost. I add Force Field with no modifier. Close the compound power. Sure enough, the EB shows active cost, but Force Field does not. I reopen and clear the Active Cost check box. Everything is fine now.

[Simon]

6. I really don't show that behavior at all. If I select, say, Acrobatics and just assign it to a new character, it comes out with 11- (correct). If I then open it for edit and add in 3 levels and then click "OK", it shows 14- (correct). I also get 14- if I open the skill from the outset and add the levels rather than just assigning it to the character.

7. That makes more sense...I thought you were saying you unchecked "display Active Points" on the abilities themselves and it was still showing. I'll get that fixed.

[RPMiller]

6. I'll post some screen captures in the following posts so that you can *see* what I'm talking about.

7. Thanks!

EDIT: Ah ha! I found out what I was seeing. My last description left out the modifier...

[RPMiller]

Step 1: I add a new skill on the powers tab.
<img src="http://www.herogames.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=163622">

[RPMiller]

Step 2: I increase level. Note the cost and level.
<img src="http://www.herogames.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=163628">

[RPMiller]

Step 3: I add an OAF. Note the cost and the level now. Is that what is supposed to happen?
<img src="http://www.herogames.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=163627">

[RPMiller]

Oops. The attachment didn't make it into step 2 above. Here it is hopefully.

[Simon]

I think that i see the source of your confusion: when you put a Focus on a Skill, it loses the benefit of the Characteristic that it is based off of.

In your case, Lockpicking would drop to a base of 9-. Add on 3 levels to that (as you had) and it becomes 12-.

[RPMiller]

Ah. I guess I missed that rule in the book. Thanks!

[Kristopher]

Hmmmm...

I suppose if you had a CyberHero campaign, you could just just a "custom limit" for skill chips that take advantage of the character's stats, but are effectively IIFs.

[Simon]

The rule's on page 141 in FREd:<blockquote>If a Characteristic-Based Skill is bought through a Focus, then the appropriate Characteristic is assumed to be 0. Thus an enchanted glove with the Skill <i>Sleight Of Hand</i> would have a 0 DEX, and the base Skill Roll would be 9 + CHAR/5 = 9-.</blockquote>

[RPMiller]

A couple more:

1. Does Knockback is not available for Drain, eventhough the Drain is against STUN for example which damages the target. I'm trying to build the Leech Blast Pistol on FREd pg 166. Note that it probably won't work for the Impressive As All Get Out Power either.
2. Not necessarily a bug, but it warns that Ego Attack has already been purchased. Shouldn't Ego Attack be treated similar to Energy Blast? A mentalist character might have many different types of Ego Attacks that have different modifiers.
3. Explosion - When buying the Fade drop off the change isn't reflected in the dialog box. You have to close it to see the effect. In other words the label to the left of the box doesn't update.
4. Indirect - If nothing is in option box a semi-colon still appears inside the parentheses.

[Simon]

1. I'll adjust the Modifier Intelligence so that Does Knockback is available on any Power that is targeted against others (and that does not already do KB).

2. Fixed.

3. Read that label more closely. The label read "1 DC/X" -- the level field gives the value of "X". There's no need to go through the overhead of refreshing it.

4. Fixed.

[RPMiller]

Originally posted by Simon
3. Read that label more closely. The label read "1 DC/X" -- the level field gives the value of "X". There's no need to go through the overhead of refreshing it. Ah, got it. That makes sense now. Thanks.

[RPMiller]

The last couple bugs I found:

1. Trigger - The value in options is not displaying whether it is the default or changed. Misfire text does display properly.
2. Concentration - The limitation is missing the modifier "Must Concentrate throughout use of the power x2" from FREd pg. 184.
3. Moving Items - After you select and move an item in a list it deselects so that you have to select it again to continue moving it.

[Simon]

1. Correct. It is expected that the description of the actual trigger (in the comments) will make that clear. To do otherwise would go against the WG.

2. Yes it is...but it's only available for Constant Powers. It is not applicable to Instant Powers, so it is not displayed.

3. Fixed.

[GamePhil]

12. No it's not.


My copy of Hero Designer (2.3) has Any Time Dimensional Movement at 65 points. The Dr. When example and Sidekick both put it at 60, and any place/dimension at 40 (HD puts it at 45). Is my HD broken, or is there a reference that changes this?

[Simon]

My copy of Hero Designer (2.3) has Any Time Dimensional Movement at 65 points. The Dr. When example and Sidekick both put it at 60, and any place/dimension at 40 (HD puts it at 45). Is my HD broken, or is there a reference that changes this? HD is calculating the costs according to the rules in FREd. Sidekick is (apparently) using a different system....similar, but expanded. Most notably, the travel through time options have been expanded significantly

I will check with Steve and see if he wants for the Sidekick costs to be included as an option for those folks who have selected Sidekick under the allowed sourcebooks (instead of FREd) or if he'd like to override the FREd definition.

[GamePhil]

In that case, you may want to let him know that the Dr. When example in FREd is five points too cheap, as this hasn't been errata'd.

[Simon]

In that case, you may want to let him know that the Dr. When example in FREd is five points too cheap, as this hasn't been errata'd. It is being dealt with.

Steve's statements to me in the past were that HD was calculating the costs correctly. I'm not going to argue with him on that.

There is a large amount of ambiguity in the rules for XDM in FREd. Sidekick, through what seem to be some expanded rules, clears up much of this, but still leaves ambiguity.

I am talking with Steve about how he wants it handled.

If you want to report the errata, feel free. Or you can wait to hear what Steve decides on clarifying the costs.

[GamePhil]

It is being dealt with.


Okey dokey.

[Simon]

OK...Steve wants to go with the expanded rules from Sidekick....

This means a few things:

1. The cost structure has been changed in HD. "Any location in a related group" is 30 points, and "Any location in any dimension" is 40 points.

2. Travel through time is no longer an Adder. It is now encompassed in three new options, matching those in Sidekick. It should be noted that if you want to travel through time <i>and</i> travel to other dimensions, you will need to buy XDM twice.

[GamePhil]

2. Travel through time is no longer an Adder. It is now encompassed in three new options, matching those in Sidekick. It should be noted that if you want to travel through time <i>and</i> travel to other dimensions, you will need to buy XDM twice.

Ouch. Oh, well, at least the Sidekick version is more clearly written.

Wow, still posting answers at 2 in the morning, such service.

[Simon]

Ouch. Oh, well, at least the Sidekick version is more clearly written.

Wow, still posting answers at 2 in the morning, such service. Actually, it was just before 7am, CST ;)