Elemental Controll for Power Suit?

[GradonSilverton]

Working on a power suit....

Could One/ Shoudl One be allowed to buy the powers of the suit in a EC?

Not talking about characteristic ones....

Things like invisibility, attacks, fields, ect?

[Monolith]

I think if the SFX group is tight there should not be a problem with an EC. For example: Light Power Elemental Control could be part of a powered armor and still have the Invisibility, Light Blast, Flash, etc. The overall SFX is far more important than the Focus.

PS: Remember that if your Invisibility is with an Obvious Focus you are still visible when using the invisibility. :)

[GradonSilverton]

Originally posted by Monolith
I think if the SFX group is tight there should not be a problem with an EC. For example: Light Power Elemental Control could be part of a powered armor and still have the Invisibility, Light Blast, Flash, etc. The overall SFX is far more important than the Focus.

PS: Remember that if your Invisibility is with an Obvious Focus you are still visible when using the invisibility. :)

uuuuhhhh.....

ok, the invisibility is built into the armor.....it happpes b/c of the armor...how do i do that one?

[Monolith]

Originally posted by GradonSilverton
ok, the invisibility is built into the armor.....it happpes b/c of the armor...how do i do that one?
There are really only a few ways to do this. By giving the Invisibility power...

... No Focus Limitation
... and IIF Focus Limitation
... an OIHID Limitation
... some other limitation???

I understand the reasoning behind the rule, but it makes for accounting nightmares. I just avoid the situation by rule that an OIF can allow someone to be Invisible, but when the person is visible it is obvious that his Invisibility power would come from the focus.

[GradonSilverton]

Originally posted by Monolith
There are really only a few ways to do this. By giving the Invisibility power...

... No Focus Limitation
... and IIF Focus Limitation
... an OIHID Limitation
... some other limitation???

I understand the reasoning behind the rule, but it makes for accounting nightmares. I just avoid the situation by rule that an OIF can allow someone to be Invisible, but when the person is visible it is obvious that his Invisibility power would come from the focus.

I think I'm going to cry!

[Monolith]

Originally posted by GradonSilverton
I think I'm going to cry!
Perhaps we should start a petition? No more Hero Games purchases until Steve fixes this injustice?

Nope, I didn't think we could. :)

[GradonSilverton]

Originally posted by Monolith
Perhaps we should start a petition? No more Hero Games purchases until Steve fixes this injustice?

Nope, I didn't think we could. :)

Be careful what you say... the DOJ Men in Black will get you for those types of thought!

[MisterVimes]

Originally posted by Monolith
There are really only a few ways to do this. By giving the Invisibility power...

... No Focus Limitation
... and IIF Focus Limitation
... an OIHID Limitation
... some other limitation???

I understand the reasoning behind the rule, but it makes for accounting nightmares. I just avoid the situation by rule that an OIF can allow someone to be Invisible, but when the person is visible it is obvious that his Invisibility power would come from the focus.

I think the simplest solution is to define the Power Armor as OIHID (as Monolith and I so often do) rather than OIF and that would end it.

[GradonSilverton]

Originally posted by MisterVimes
I think the simplest solution is to define the Power Armor as OIHID (as Monolith and I so often do) rather than OIF and that would end it.
OIHID....I must be missing something b/c I can remember what that breaks out to.

[MisterVimes]

Originally posted by GradonSilverton
OIHID....I must be missing something b/c I can remember what that breaks out to.

Only in Hero ID (it prevents naughty people from prying your suit off) it's a -1/4 lim.

[GradonSilverton]

Originally posted by MisterVimes
Only in Hero ID (it prevents naughty people from prying your suit off) it's a -1/4 lim.
aaahhhh.... makes sense actually, but the suit can be taken... i think i'll cry again

[MisterVimes]

Originally posted by GradonSilverton
aaahhhh.... makes sense actually, but the suit can be taken... i think i'll cry again

Actually with that Lim, you can be caught without the suit (requiring time to put the outfit on) but it simulates a bunch of suits back at the house. It's not a focus and can't be 'taken'. This is the 'Iron Man' Effect. If the suit goes blooey he heads back to Stark Ent. and grabs a new suit... this Lim (since it is a -1/4) is less likely to crop up than the OIF (a -1/2).

It's the best way to go with an advanced power armor guy.

[JmOz]

Real simple solution:

buy most of the powers as OIF, buy Invisibility as IIF...Done

As for EC's two ways: 1 with a tight F/X (light or Force Field Tech), or a EC: Power Armor, in wichca you can only use common powers of the type (Flight, EB/RKA, Armor)

[GradonSilverton]

Originally posted by MisterVimes
Actually with that Lim, you can be caught without the suit (requiring time to put the outfit on) but it simulates a bunch of suits back at the house. It's not a focus and can't be 'taken'. This is the 'Iron Man' Effect. If the suit goes blooey he heads back to Stark Ent. and grabs a new suit... this Lim (since it is a -1/4) is less likely to crop up than the OIF (a -1/2).

It's the best way to go with an advanced power armor guy.

What if I want there to be only ... say 2 suits?

[Monolith]

Originally posted by GradonSilverton
aaahhhh.... makes sense actually, but the suit can be taken... i think i'll cry again
What you can do is just buy your EC with the IIF Limitation and then buy each slot in the EC (except for the invisibility) as OIF. That way you are only paying extra points for the base EC cost and the Invisibility.

Another alternative would be to give the Invisibility an Advantage (Perhaps Invisible Power Effect: +1/2) to represent that it is a special case. Personally I just ignore the rule the OIF rule if the SFX make sense.

[MisterVimes]

Originally posted by Monolith
Personally I just ignore the rule the OIF rule if the SFX make sense.

Listen to the man, he makes good sense.

[Monolith]

Originally posted by MisterVimes
Listen to the man, he makes good sense.
Did you ever have one of those days where everything you type just comes out wrong? I seem to be developing a stutter in my typing. Oh well. It has been a long day. At least that sentence makes some sense, poorly worded and all. :)

[MisterVimes]

Originally posted by Monolith
Did you ever have one of those days where everything you type just comes out wrong? I seem to be developing a stutter in my typing. Oh well. It has been a long day. At least that sentence makes some sense, poorly worded and all. :)

:D It was the thought that counts... I feel your pain:D

[Blackout]

Now then, in this instance (see my "Other People's Characters..." thread), OIHID makes perfect sense to me. See, I'm not totally opposed to that as a limitation!

[Law Dog]

Originally posted by Monolith


Another alternative would be to give the Invisibility an Advantage (Perhaps Invisible Power Effect: +1/2) to represent that it is a special case. Personally I just ignore the rule the OIF rule if the SFX make sense.


Amen. This is one of the rules I don't follow simply because I don't find the logic behind it to be sound. It's like telling somebody they can't buy an OAF jetpack because if they use it to fly up where you can't get to them, then you can't capitalize on the fact it's OAF.

Not to mention, there are so many ways that supers can circumvent invisibility in the first place and detect it's source, I don't find it to be an issue.

[BarryB]

Originally posted by Law Dog
I've been gaming longer that some of you have been alive. Damned, I feel old.

I'm with you on the signature, Law Dog.

[voards]

is whether or not the special effects would allow an EC as part of a powered armor. i've been examining this lately as i try to work up a powered suit character idea i've had.

the FRED rules talk about a very good point for determining if an EC is appropriate. look at whether a drain/supress could affect all of the powers at once. not all powered armor suits can match up to this requirement. the classic 'iron man' type of suit with a slab of metal for armor, boot jets, and several kinds of weapons isn't very good for an EC. a drain/supress might be able to affect one power, but not others, unless you're getting into some very exotic special effects for your drain/supress.

on the other hand, a more tight concept armor suit, let's use 'lady blue' from champions as an example, would have a concept for a powered armor that would could be easily affected by a single drain. her powers come from gravitic and/or force field manipulation, if i recall.

i've really had to rethink how to use EC's under the FRED rules, but i think being more strict is helping me build more realistic characters under the rules. it is awfully easy and tempting to slap a lot into an EC in order to save points. however, all those powers in an EC are also getting more vulnerable in some ways due to how a drain/supress affects all of the powers in the EC, and how powers are lost from an EC when it's part of a focus in the case of a typical power armor.

you need to look at what you're comfortable with here. if you feel your concept of a suit wouldn't lose several related powers from a penetrating hit or a drain/supress, then maybe an EC isn't the way to go. standard points in FRED are higher, which gives you room to eliminate a number of disadvantages while keeping the same rough power level.

also, in looking through the sample characters for 5th edition products, i've noticed that the technology powered armor types do not have elemental controls as i remember. multipowers are common, but the non-attack powers that normally would be placed into an EC, such as flight, armor, force field and such are all on their own as seperate powers.

-v