Who is the better Orator?

[Hermit]

Fighting... bah, anyone can fight, but who gives great speeches? Who can steal the show and make the comic he's in seem on par with the best acted of Hamlet scene's?

Here are the contenders, for good or evil...

I realize I have missed many, as per usual. :)

[Chuckg]

Tossup between Doom and Cap...

Cap can steal a scene from damn near anybody in the MU, even Thunder Gods.

Doom can make nations stop and listen to the sound of his voice.

So I'd say that Cap is pretty much the Ultimate Heroic Orator, and Doom is the Ultimate Villainous Orator.

[Hermit]

One thing I noticed when whipping out the poll....
I couldn't think of many Female heroes/villains who really stood out in Oratory.

One that comes to mind is Liberty Belle , and Wonder Woman has her moments, but for ladies consistantly portrayed as having Oratory out the wazoo, I couldn't think of any.

Am I missing someone , or have comic book writers just never really had much success with the ladies in that area?

[Crusader108]

The oratory has to go to Cap. Besides a huge PRE, the man is the best of the best of the best (SIR!). He has, with just a phrase (Avengers Assemble), turned defeat into victory countless times. While he may not be Marvel's flagship character, he is their idealistic heart and soul.

[Lord Mhoram]

Crusader with you and Hermit here, this poll is going to be way unbalanced, maybe some of us should change our avatars for a bit....:D

[Hermit]

Originally posted by Lord Mhoram
Crusader with you and Hermit here, this poll is going to be way unbalanced, maybe some of us should change our avatars for a bit....:D

Golly, for some reason the Avatar set up seems just dandy to me :D

[BNakagawa]

Black Bolt?

[Bloodstone]

Am I missing someone , or have comic book writers just never really had much success with the ladies in that area?

Storm had a few memorable ones...as in I still remember them all these years later...

[rjcurrie]

I always liked the quote about Cap from an issueof Daredevil by Frank Miller, where old Hornhead is narrating his encounter with the Avengers (I believe it was against Nuke):

(Frame of Cap giving orders) He had a voice that could command a god. (Frame of Thor in action) And it did.

[Bartman]

I go with Cap on this one.

And now the hijack, why does Thor still sound like Shakespeare's dimwitted cousin? The guy was/is a norse god his native language certainly wasn't English. So why did he pick up archaic English in the first place? And why after 40+ years hasn't he learned modern useage?

[phydaux]

Originally posted by Bartman
I go with Cap on this one.

And now the hijack, why does Thor still sound like Shakespeare's dimwitted cousin? The guy was/is a norse god his native language certainly wasn't English. So why did he pick up archaic English in the first place? And why after 40+ years hasn't he learned modern useage?

Because:

1) Thor with a "Swedish Chef" accent couldn't scare anyone.

2) The writers really DON'T know the differance.

3) With the state of public education in America most readers don't know the differance either.

[Lord Liaden]

Originally posted by Bartman
I go with Cap on this one.

And now the hijack, why does Thor still sound like Shakespeare's dimwitted cousin? The guy was/is a norse god his native language certainly wasn't English. So why did he pick up archaic English in the first place? And why after 40+ years hasn't he learned modern useage?

This issue came up in an issue of The Invaders by Roy Thomas, in which Nazi sorcerors sumoned Thor to try to persuade him to fight for them. According to that explanation Thor isn't speaking English; his speech is in Old Norse, the tongue of the Vikings. Because he's a god, the listener hears his words in whatever his or her native language is, but in an antique form befitting Thor's ancient origins.

As to your second question, (a) because in Marvel continuity he hasn't been around the modern world for 40+ years, (b) because a lot of us comics fans think he sounds cool this way. :p

[SuperPheemy]

Doom. Because he's a villain, he gets more opportunities to expound on his reasoning in evil soliloquy. He does a great job of justifying the unthinkable.

That and he mocked Sue during the Unthinkable storyline. While holding her baby daughter in his armored hands, Sue growls "let go of her..." and Doom cuts her off with a mocking "...you monster! Reed, DO something!"

You gotta love a monarch who takes the time to be petty and small when the situation warrants.

[sbarron]

"Pain? Pain is like love, like compassion. It is a thing only for lesser men. What is pain to Doom?"

That quote settled it for me years ago...

[Lord Mhoram]

I voted Nightwing, but in retrospect I should have gone Cap. Oratory is his to own.

That said the best speech by an Avenger was the Beast. (forgive any lapses it has been years and this is from memory) It was decades ago, and the Avengers were in some sort of hearing to get thier government okay revoked, with the opposition being Gyrich. His whole argument was something along the lines that the Avengers were not needed... During the proceedings, a monster comes out of the bay and starts trashing parts of the city, and this comes over a TV. So Beast breaks a chair as he says something along the line of "We have talked about what we did, and you have come up with reasons why it didn't matter. Well " he points at the TV "here is another problem. Maybe you are right, maybe the Avengers are passe." He then hands Gyrich a stick that used to be a chairleg "In that case, you go deal with it".
Gyrich taps the chairleg like he is thinking about it, then drops his head and says "Go".
The avengers leave and the case is dismissed.

Always loved that.

[lemming]

Originally posted by Bartman
I go with Cap on this one.

And now the hijack, why does Thor still sound like Shakespeare's dimwitted cousin? The guy was/is a norse god his native language certainly wasn't English. So why did he pick up archaic English in the first place? And why after 40+ years hasn't he learned modern useage?
Someone else pointed out the "Swedish Chef" reference, but didn't one of the silly "What if?" cover this?

[Vondy]

Originally posted by Hermit
One thing I noticed when whipping out the poll....
I couldn't think of many Female heroes/villains who really stood out in Oratory.



Kitty Pryde

She has guilt trip induction powers that affect even the Beyonder.

[Bartman]

Originally posted by D-Man
Kitty Pryde

She has guilt trip induction powers that affect even the Beyonder.

Good point. She'll make an excellent Jewish mother someday.
"After all I've done for you this is how you repay me?!" :D

[Jeff T.]

Hermit, lemme say first that I respect you as a pollster, even though we have a slight rivalry in that area (which you are clearly winning, by the way). Please understand then that I mean my next statement in the nicest way possible.


ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR FREAKING MIND!!!!

People, all of the above are just...SWELL...choices, really...they are.

...but the best GD, MFing orator in all of comics history is...

Spider-Man!!!!

C'mon, must I even cite the bazillion examples of him utterly humiliating his enemies before even laying a finger on them!

Sorry, maybe I'm over the top here, but this is a no-brainer to me.

[BNakagawa]

The (animated) Maxx.

[Hermit]

Originally posted by Starlord
Hermit, lemme say first that I respect you as a pollster, even though we have a slight rivalry in that area (which you are clearly winning, by the way).
(Clip)

Let's keep the part that praises me before I answer... ;)

As to Spider-Man, while he's okay with speaking to entire groups, his best work is one on one heckling. His Spidey Speech is patented, and has demoralized more foes than I care to count, but is it oratory? I was unsure, Hence his ommision.

Frankly, I have wondered at Spidey's ability to destroy the Oratory of others...if he werent' in such awe of Cap, he might even ruin Winghead's speeches.

Captain America- "Avengers Assem..."
Spidey- "Assimulate! Wait, no, that's the Borg. Aclimate? You've been in New York for years.... Avengers Congregate... here, let's have a mixer... "
Cap : "Uhem... Spidey?"
Spidey: "Yeah Cap?"
Cap: "You threw off my groove."
Thor: (grabs Spidey roughly) "Pardon yon webspinner, thou hast thrown off the Captain's groove." (Toss)
Spidey (going over the horizon): "I'm soooooorrrry" :)

[JmOz]

Originally posted by Lord Liaden
This issue came up in an issue of The Invaders by Roy Thomas, in which Nazi sorcerors sumoned Thor to try to persuade him to fight for them. According to that explanation Thor isn't speaking English; his speech is in Old Norse, the tongue of the Vikings. Because he's a god, the listener hears his words in whatever his or her native language is, but in an antique form befitting Thor's ancient origins.

As to your second question, (a) because in Marvel continuity he hasn't been around the modern world for 40+ years, (b) because a lot of us comics fans think he sounds cool this way. :p

Side note: Thor can speak normaly, he chooses not to (My guess would have to do with what comes naturaly and what does not

[lemming]

Originally posted by Hermit
*hilarity nipped*
ROFLMAOAW

I think I'll agree with the reasoning as well.

[megaplayboy]

I'll put in a vote for the Silver Surfer, although that's often more appropriate for "best soliloquy", since he's by his lonesome so much. And his old boss could silence a crowd("Galactus does what Galactus must, and nobody speaks in third person better than Galactus")
Dr. Strange is a pretty good speaker, too.

but Cap is probably the best inspirational speaker, with Supes a close second.

[Mister Khan]

Glorious Godfrey :)

[Pattern Ghost]

The Tick!

[Jeff T.]

Originally posted by Hermit
Let's keep the part that praises me before I answer... ;)

As to Spider-Man, while he's okay with speaking to entire groups, his best work is one on one heckling. His Spidey Speech is patented, and has demoralized more foes than I care to count, but is it oratory? I was unsure, Hence his ommision.



Well, you're original post does say 'great speeches', I took that to mean 'the best outright talker'. That's gotta be the wall-crawler IMO. Thor doesn't really give speeches, he just talks cool.

Out of those choices, I'd say Thor is the most fun to listen to, and nobody can beat a good "Thee Nay!" when you're just about to wallop somebody.

Mister Fantastic can be fun to listen to as well. Seeing as how nobody understands him...but him.

...and who has more catchphrases and a better 'stylistic' way of speaking than...Benjamin J. Grimm.

[Crusader108]

Sorry Starlord, but a glib/sarcastic attitude doesn't make you a great orator. Spidey has some great one-liners but so does The Terminator and he isn't a great orator either. Truly great oratory must emotional move and motivate the audience (ie the President's speech in ID4). Above all, a great orator must be a leader, he words motivating others to follow an example or idea. What has Spidey evver led? He's always been a loner/outsider. The closest thing I can remember Spidey having a leadership role in was "Spidey and his Amazing Friends"....and I don't think that counts. :D If it does, any time Cap showed up, Spidey immediately deferred to Cap and to a follower role.

Oh, and enraging or insulting an opponent doesn't quite qualify as motivation...unless attempting to kill you was you were striving for. :D

[Jeff T.]

Originally posted by Crusader108
Sorry Starlord, but a glib/sarcastic attitude doesn't make you a great orator. Spidey has some great one-liners but so does The Terminator and he isn't a great orator either. Truly great oratory must emotional move and motivate the audience (ie the President's speech in ID4). Above all, a great orator must be a leader, he words motivating others to follow an example or idea. What has Spidey evver led? He's always been a loner/outsider. The closest thing I can remember Spidey having a leadership role in was "Spidey and his Amazing Friends"....and I don't think that counts. :D If it does, any time Cap showed up, Spidey immediately deferred to Cap and to a follower role.

Oh, and enraging or insulting an opponent doesn't quite qualify as motivation...unless attempting to kill you was you were striving for. :D

All true, and I'm not really gonna make a back-and-forth debate about it, but here's what we're given to work with:

Fighting... bah, anyone can fight, but who gives great speeches? Who can steal the show and make the comic he's in seem on par with the best acted of Hamlet scene's?

None of that indicates somebody has to give inspirational or motivational speaking engagements.

Basically, who can steal the show with his mouth? :)

[caris]

Originally posted by Starlord
All true, and I'm not really gonna make a back-and-forth debate about it, but here's what we're given to work with:

Fighting... bah, anyone can fight, but who gives great speeches? Who can steal the show and make the comic he's in seem on par with the best acted of Hamlet scene's?

None of that indicates somebody has to give inspirational or motivational speaking engagements.

Basically, who can steal the show with his mouth? :)

Sorry, Starlord, but you're stretching. If the reference had been a Marx Brother's movie or A Midsummer's Nights Dream. I'd go with you, that Peter's quips and comments puts him in the lead.

Unfortunately, the poll title indicators Orator, which implies being able to put together more than a string of one liners. The reference is to Hamlet, which is way to serious to allow any of the comedy masters into the running.

Spidey is an OK comedian, but he is not a great orator.

[Kristopher]

What The!? spoofed long-winded heroes in one of their issues. When it comes to oratory in comics, I tend to agree with What The!? -- it's a source of material to make fun of more often than it's a source of inspiration.

[Jeff T.]

Originally posted by caris
Sorry, Starlord, but you're stretching. If the reference had been a Marx Brother's movie or A Midsummer's Nights Dream. I'd go with you, that Peter's quips and comments puts him in the lead.

Unfortunately, the poll title indicators Orator, which implies being able to put together more than a string of one liners. The reference is to Hamlet, which is way to serious to allow any of the comedy masters into the running.

Spidey is an OK comedian, but he is not a great orator.

Fair enough. That was my honest take on it. Given that I was the only one to do so, I was clearly mistaken.

Unlike others on different threads that involve Cap, I can admit when I'm wrong. :D

[Hermit]

Originally posted by Starlord
Fair enough. That was my honest take on it. Given that I was the only one to do so, I was clearly mistaken.

Unlike others on different threads that involve Cap, I can admit when I'm wrong. :D

"NO, never give up, never surrender!"

;)

S'cool, I put in Other in case in part so that if someone thought I had left someone out wrongly, for whatever reason, they could cast their vote for them. :)

[Madstone]

There can be only one choice: Mojo Jojo. And Mojo Jojo is the only choice that can be made.

[Tim]

Originally posted by Hermit
Let's keep the part that praises me before I answer... ;)

As to Spider-Man, while he's okay with speaking to entire groups, his best work is one on one heckling. His Spidey Speech is patented, and has demoralized more foes than I care to count, but is it oratory? I was unsure, Hence his ommision.

Frankly, I have wondered at Spidey's ability to destroy the Oratory of others...if he werent' in such awe of Cap, he might even ruin Winghead's speeches.

Captain America- "Avengers Assem..."
Spidey- "Assimulate! Wait, no, that's the Borg. Aclimate? You've been in New York for years.... Avengers Congregate... here, let's have a mixer... "
Cap : "Uhem... Spidey?"
Spidey: "Yeah Cap?"
Cap: "You threw off my groove."
Thor: (grabs Spidey roughly) "Pardon yon webspinner, thou hast thrown off the Captain's groove." (Toss)
Spidey (going over the horizon): "I'm soooooorrrry" :)

ROTFLMAO!

Give this to the right writer and IT WOULD HAPPEN! Probably in a Spidey Comic and not the Avengers.

[zornwil]

I had to go for Joker; he's had some great moments, especially in the Killing Joke but in a few others as well. He can be funny, chilling, and/or tragic, depending on the moment, and his unpredictability is what works best.