Okay, so here's a question. I'm just looking for input.
How would y'all build a character like, say, Voltron, here you have five characters that become one significantly more powerful character?
Any advice or thoughts would be appreciated.
--->M@ss
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Okay, so here's a question. I'm just looking for input.
How would y'all build a character like, say, Voltron, here you have five characters that become one significantly more powerful character?
Any advice or thoughts would be appreciated.
--->M@ss
There's an example of how to do a Voltron-style combining mech in The Ultimate Vehicle, which should work for any "combining" character. Without giving too much away from the book, each of the "components" buys a Multiform for the combined form, but only pays a fraction of the cost for the Multiform as divided by the number of components, e.g. if three beings combine into one, each component being pays one-third the total cost for the Multiform.
Hmmm...I can just about see myself letting a vehicle get away with that, but probably not a character. I reckon you'd need a multipower. One slot duplication (four other forms of similar power to the base character, the other slot would be a multipform to a more powerfiul form. You could only switch to the multiform when the duplicates are combined.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Liaden
If you wanted a whole team of different characters to be able to combine
you could allow them to pay a contribution to the 'megaform'...it wouldn't be rules legal, IMO, but if everyone got equal benefit no one would be put out.
Votron I can see being handled this way. But what if I wanted the Forever People and there ablity to become the Infinity Man? The effect is five humans becoming one being. (Of course in the comicbook it was a translocation with forever people going in to another reality and the Infinity Man replacing them.) Multiform tied to a duplicaion?
This is almost exactly the effect I'd like. I used Voltron as the most geek-obvious example. :winkgrin:Quote:
Originally Posted by LoresLost
The way I've tended to do this is to buy it like so:
The Megacharacter is the primary form. He buys Duplication for the minor characters, and then I just slap on a +0 Advantage to the Duplication (Fusion Character). The Advantage simply indicates that it's a Duplication in reverse.
Another way I thought of doing it was as buying Desolidification linked to a Summon. Without getting into the acrobatic slew of Modifiers needed to accomplish this, I'll explain. Each character desolidifies for the duration of the Summoning. The Summoning calls forth the Megacharacter, each Summon having been bought as Cumulative to the other characters' Summons.
Both these solutions seem clumsy, though. Could it be time for a *gasp!* new Power? The opposite of Duplication?
-->M@ss
I'm not certain I see the difficulty with using the method from TUV, or why it would be more appropriate for vehicles than for characters. The precedent already exists for characters to split the Character Point cost for mutual Bases and Vehicles, in the Champions genre book.
If you're concerned about game balance, you could put Limitations on the Multiform to make it less readily accessible, such as Extra Time or Focus. The example from TUV applies an "Only When All Components Are Present" Limitation, assessed at -1, but you could make that a -0 Lim as the condition for dividing the cost. Thus if one of the combining characters is missing or unconscious, the other form can't be achieved.
If I'm missing some issues I hope you'll explain. Regardless, of course you should use a method you're comfortable with. :)
There is a big difference between vehicles and bases, which have their own inherent limitations, on the one hand and characters on the other. Like I said earlier in this thread, if the whole team wanted to combine, I'd probably allow it as everyone would be treated equally (although I can see arguments over who gets the legs, who gets the mouth etc...).Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Liaden
If a single character wanted to build this construct I think it would be (highly) abusive to allow one player to control several characters that could share the cost of combining into a single powerful form, especially when there is a solid game mechanic to accomplish this (a MP with duplication and multiform). You couldn't get as much power out of the game legal version, but that may well be why it is written that way.
Re-reading this again I have thought of a way to 'cheat':
Base character has duplication (4 additional forms, must recombine when multiform activated) and a SMALL multiform to a powerful character - so it obviously won't work as you don't have the points - and a small aid to own Multiform. Each of the duplicates has an aid to aid. Dupe 1 aids Dupe 2's aid who aids dupe 3'd aid who aid's dupe 4's aid who aids base character's aid who then boosts his own multiform to horrific proportions and....well the base character's multiform would be boosted by over 100 points even if each dupe only had 3d6 aid...
That is so slow and clunky I'd probably even let them get away with it...
Oh well, if we're talking about one PC character who splits up into several less powerful beings, and can recombine into the stronger form, Duplication can probably handle this. My suggestion would be to design the base character and the number of duplicates to the stats you want them to have when separated, then give the base character additional abilities with the Limitation, "Not When Duplicated."
Don't know if I like 'not when duplicated' as a limitation - what would that be worth? You could potentially save more points than you paid for the duplication in the first place, and the unscrupulous might be tempted to buy a power they rarely used for that very purpose...2" Flight, all other powers not useable whilst flying...Alternatively, you could stick the 'additional abilities' into a slot of a multipower with the duplication in the other. Mind you I suppose that way you save (almost) as many points as you use in the duplication. You just can't lose, can you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Liaden
Since "A limitation that does not limit is not worth points", you can lose.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRealLemming
NWD is usually worth -1/4 because of how useful it would be to Duplicate AND have your powers up.
Especially if it's likely they you wouldn't recombine when you want to...
When this came up for me I did it as follows:
Base form is the compound Being, it buys a Multifiorm
Multiform has Duplication with always on
Can you tell me: is the compound character the whole team combining, or is this being built for a single player?Quote:
Originally Posted by ProfessorM@ss
The whole team combining. It's for a villain team in a superhero game.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRealLemming
I'm thinking of dodging the whole Multiform thing. Buy it as the megacharacter with Duplication, and then just going with a madeup Advantage to represent the reverse nature of the Duplication. e.g. if the big guy gets knocked out, he Duplicates into the smaller guys, etc. etc.
The trick is figuring out the cost of the Advantage, and all the components of what it would do.
I really just wish there were a Fusion power to solve this. It seems like a common enough effect that it deserves it's own entry.
--->M@ss
You obviously spend more time worrying about villain points than I do. I'd buy the big guy then have multiform accidental change when he loses half his BODY. Something like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by ProfessorM@ss
I handled it as the "Base form is combined, which has a multiform with duplication" method when I wanted this to use against the PC's. Worked okay, although I had to fiat the automatic duplication bit.