Package Deal Feature

[Simon]

I'm moving the discussion of this potential new feature here so that it's not buried in the other thread.

To summarize what has gone before:

I'm considering a new feature in HDv2 that will streamline the creation/use of package deals within HD.

The issue, as far as I understand it, is that the proper implementation if a package deal within HD is a combination of up to three different items:

1. A .hdc character file that defines the "starting point" for the character. All "fixed" abilities are defined in this file; things like starting characteristic values, Skills, talents, etc.

2. One or more prefab files. These define the optional abilities for the package. Typically things like "select 1 of the following 3 Skills" or "characters may have the following...", etc.

3. A custom template. This is only necessary if you want to have custom rules for your package. Things like different NCM limits seem to be common.

Given these three concepts, you can accomplish pretty much whatever you need for a given package deal.

Now the issues:

1. It's a bit cumbersome having to send so many files to your players. You'd potentially need to send them the character file, template, and prefabs. To use them, the player would need to load the character file (which would automatically take care of the template) and then load in any prefabs that are applicable, and remember to "save as..." so they don't overwrite the character file starting point.

2. On that last note, the possibility for someone to accidentally (and fairly easily) overwrite that character starting point file is a bit of an issue.

I was thinking of creating a new type of "package file" which would take care of all of this....it would contain the character file, prefabs, and template and would handle loading them all in and would ensure that the .hdc file starting point was never overwritten.

The problem with this really comes into play with the prefabs and with the internal mechanisms in the app for using this new file type.

What I'm thinking may be a better idea is to take a similar concept, but trim it down a bit so that the flexibility of the prefabs in the app is unaffected and the benefits of the packaged file are maintained. To wit:

What I'm currently thinking is a new function that would work similarly to Word's .dot template files (this was suggested by someone else).

A package template would essentially merge the character file and the template into a single file. When a character was started with this package template, it would automatically start out with all the abilities defined in the character file and the template would be loaded in. All that the user would have to do at that point would be to load in the prefabs that they want to use.

The advantage to this approach (IMO) is the simplicity of it. The package template would really just be an extension of the existing template functionality. The file extension would still be .hdt and it would function in all ways like a normal template. There would be two new menu items created to implement this:

File -> New Character from Template...

This would prompt the user to select a .hdt file on their system. If the .hdt file contained a character definition as well as the template definition, the starting values from that character definition would be loaded in. Otherwise, a blank character would be created.

File -> Save as Package Template...

This would take the current template and the currently active character and bundle them together into a new .hdt file.

This structure is something that I can implement in very short order and has the benefit of not conflicting with any existing functionality.

Thoughts?

[TheTemplar]

Sounds great to me. It fixes the variable NCM issues with racial package deals that should have lower starting characteristics than others, and yet doesn't break the "No Negative Characteristics as Powers" rule. It really adds to what you can do with racial package deals in v.2.

I'm for it.

[Simon]

Yeah....what it really boils down to is allowing templates to define starting abilities/purchases for characters that are based off of them.

The "new features" apart from that would be giving an easy way to insert these starting values/purchases into an existing template (you'd still need to customize templates the way you do now) and being able to tell the app to start a character with the starting values defined in the template.

It should be noted that if someone had an existing character and assigned one of these hnew templates to it, it would act just like the current version. The template would be assigned to the character but no changes would be made on the purchased abilities. The character starting point definitions would only come into play on new characters -- preventing conflicts with existing character constructions.

[Killer Shrike]

2 thumbs up, and eagerly awaiting implementation. In the pot, 5 by 5.

[tekatana]

I was searching the boards for some insight into package deals and came across this post. Has this been implemented? I am starting a space-faring campaign and have many careers, races, and cultures available and the sheer number of prefab and template files are beginning to get out of hand. The "Package Feature" will solve all my issues.

Thanks in advance!

[Simon]

I was searching the boards for some insight into package deals and came across this post. Has this been implemented? I am starting a space-faring campaign and have many careers, races, and cultures available and the sheer number of prefab and template files are beginning to get out of hand. The "Package Feature" will solve all my issues.

Thanks in advance!

This was just one of many discussions on the subject.

The final implementation was handled by the "Save As Template" and "New Character from Template" functionality.

[Teflon Billy]

This sounds really super.

Just a couple of things that spring to mind:

Martial Arts Packages: As they currently are written up in the UMA, particularly Ninjutsu, they quite easily can be re-written as package deals with a "Take 0 to X number of points from this Styles list of Martial Arts" along with "Take X number of points in these Skills"

Would it be possible to expand the .hdt file to include the Martial Arts category, under the same style of use as what Skills are currently used in published Package Deals?

Multiple Package Deal Stacking: The whole Race+Culture+Profession+Blah Package Deal Character issue. I realize what you've got worked out so far is in a nascent stage and I'm sure have much to hash out before it even sees the light of day, but does what you've stated above take this case into account? I understand if you want to start off with just dealing with the single Package Deal per Character case, but I couldn't tell from what you had outlined if it didn't take multi-package characters in account already in its design.

TB

PS I literally was outlining an e-mail to you just this weekend with a very similar breakdown to what you wrote out (without the technical implementation aspect of MS .dot files of course) You need to tone down your mental projection power, some of us are subconsiously picking up your brilliant ideas and thinking they are our own

[Simon]

For any "Select X of the following Y" types of deals, you need to create a prefab. Put the items in a list, and label the list "Select X of the following" or whatever.

The combination of prefab and "Save As Template" will get you what you need.

[ProfessorM@ss]

To start: YAY! Package Deals! I cannot tell you how cool this feature would be.

It's late, so I'm a little confuzzled by the technical description of how this will work, but let me comment more on end-user functionality. I'd think this feature would do the job if it met the following criteria:

1) If it could be selected as a starting point (like a template), which is especially useful for racial package deals.

2) If it could be selected later on, without modifying the default template. For example, I might want a standard campaign template for my Silver Age superheroic game, but still have a character pick "Package Deal: Cop" without changing from the original campaign template.

3) If it were possible to simply save a character sheet as a Package Deal, including things like negatives or pluses to Characteristics. Basically, I think it'd be ideal for it to work like a prefab, except with the Characteristic modifications that many Package Deals have.

4) Each item from the Package Deal that can appear in a named list (based on the Package Deal name), -should- appear in a named list, just as if it were picked from a prefab.

Does that make sense? I hope so. Methinks the horse tranquilizers a.k.a. cold medicine I took is seeping in, so I'm not sure if I'm being clear.

Also, a common house rule I've seen is having Package Deal costs exist outside the normal framework of Points+Disadvantages that a character's final point tally is built on. For some people, this is the bonus of selecting a Package Deal -- you get more Disads than others, but also more abilities. Would it be possible to include an option to instantiate the Package Deal as within or outside of the normal Points+Disads tally?

--->M@ss

[Simon]

Sigh.

Let me be very clear here:

This is an old thread that was posted to.

Package deals have already been implemented to the full extent that they are going to be in HD. Use "Save As Template"/"New Character From Template". When necessary, incorporate a prefab (if desired).

[ProfessorM@ss]

Sigh.

Erk. My bad! It's what I get for posting in the wee hours of the morning.

--->M@ss