Doctor Destroyer versus Takofanes

[Lord Liaden]

We've all seen the recent flood of comic-book character matchups posited on this forum. While certainly fun and fodder for lively speculation and debate, all these comparisons suffer to some extent from the inconsistent portrayal of these characters' abilities in comics over the years, and subjective impressions of what they can do. Now that isn't as much of a problem for characters from the Champions Universe: fully statted out as they are in our beloved HERO System, you can readily see what they're capable of and how they compare to each other. Ah, but for the more versatile superbeings, tricked out in Power Frameworks and with arrays of Skills, interpreting those comparisons is an art in itself.

So, I thought it would be interesting to see Champs fans' take on how some matchups would stack up. IMHO there could be no more appropriate contest than between the two most personally devastating and diametrically opposed megalomaniacs in the CU to date:

IN THIS CORNER: The most advanced scientific mind in the world. The villain feared like no other on Earth. Deity to the Javangari. The Butcher of Detroit! The technological Shiva! The one, the only

DOCTOR DESTROYER!


AND IN THIS CORNER: He gave his name to an entire age of history. His sorcery and his evil are unrivalled. Lord of Undead, Master of Demons. The Ravager of Men! The Archlich! You know him, you loathe him:

TAKOFANES, THE UNDYING LORD!


Gentlemen, come out swinging.

[Vorsch]

Takofanes, and i dont even know his stat.

All of destroyers Tech cant face Ancient Magical Evil.

Destroyer is a cross between Doom and Iron man, he simply cand deal with Takofanes, unless destroyers is the GOD some people make him.

Different worlds, Mystic masters vs Super science

Takofanes, cos i like the name

Vorsch

[lemming]

Takofanes annoys me. So I vote the Doctor.

[ZootSoot]

Originally posted by Lord Liaden
We've all seen the recent flood of comic-book character matchups posited on this forum. While certainly fun and fodder for lively speculation and debate, all these comparisons suffer to some extent from the inconsistent portrayal of these characters' abilities in comics over the years, and subjective impressions of what they can do. Now that isn't as much of a problem for characters from the Champions Universe: fully statted out as they are in our beloved HERO System, you can readily see what they're capable of and how they compare to each other. Ah, but for the more versatile superbeings, tricked out in Power Frameworks and with arrays of Skills, interpreting those comparisons is an art in itself.

So, I thought it would be interesting to see Champs fans' take on how some matchups would stack up. IMHO there could be no more appropriate contest than between the two most personally devastating and diametrically opposed megalomaniacs in the CU to date:

IN THIS CORNER: The most advanced scientific mind in the world. The villain feared like no other on Earth. Deity to the Javangari. The Butcher of Detroit! The technological Shiva! The one, the only

DOCTOR DESTROYER!


AND IN THIS CORNER: He gave his name to an entire age of history. His sorcery and his evil are unrivalled. Lord of Undead, Master of Demons. The Ravager of Men! The Archlich! You know him, you loathe him:

TAKOFANES, THE UNDYING LORD!


Mechanically they are real close with Destroyer having a bit of an edge. But when it comes to VPPPs as a GM I give more lattitude to magic than technology because it just seems less limited so I vote for Takofanes.



Gentlemen, come out swinging.

[Gary]

If they used their full capabilities, Takofanes wins easily. 125 800 pt vampires and liches are better than 20,000 300 or fewer pt agents. Takofanes could direct 25 800 pt liches to annihilate Destroyer, and still have 100 left to deal with the cannon fodder.

A straight up fight is more interesting. Destroyer is built on more points, but many of those points are in skills and other stuff that can't be used directly in combat.

The relevant stuff.

Destroyer
40 def with 1/2 damage reduction.
30 dex/8 spd
150 pt multipower with 125 pt multipower where he can make a multiple power attack. 90 pt gadget pool that can't be changed in combat to add extra defenses or miscellaneous stuff.
Every defense in the book at 15-20 pt level.
10 base CV with 4 overall and 4 range levels.
30" combat flight.
55 con, 100 stun, 30 rec.

Takofanes has:
25 def with 3/4 DR (advantage Takofanes)
25 dex/6 spd (advantage Destroyer)
120 pt multipower with 150 pt cosmic VPP. (advantage Takofanes. Destroyer has more active points that he can throw in a single gigantic attack, but the sheer flexibility of a 150 pt cosmic pool more than compensates)
Every defense in the book at 20-25 pts (slight advantage Takofanes)
8 base CV with 4 overall levels (advantage Destroyer)
20" combat flight (advantage Destroyer)
30 con, 80 stun, 20 rec (advantage Destroyer)

Destroyer has a major advantage in CV, dex and spd, and toughness. Takofanes has an advantage in defenses and cosmic pool.

This fight depends on how creative Takofanes is with his cosmic VPP. A very skilled player playing Takofanes would probably win. A novice will lose.

[KA.]

Originally posted by ZootSoot

Interesting analysis Zoot!
I couldn't have said it better myself.


KA

[death tribble]

Destroyer. Far more creative then somebody who just keeps raising the Undead.

I find Takofanes a pain too and the main picture in the Hero book and used here is one of the reasons.

[phydaux]

I say Tekofanes. The 150 Cosmic VPP takes it.

The Doc can only take so many Double Armor Piercing Ego Drains. Sooner or later he becomes Tekofanes' DNPC.

And then the world is in for some REAL misery.

[Monolith]

Originally posted by Gary
If they used their full capabilities, Takofanes wins easily. 125 800 pt vampires and liches are better than 20,000 300 or fewer pt agents. Takofanes could direct 25 800 pt liches to annihilate Destroyer, and still have 100 left to deal with the cannon fodder.

The summon would really only work for Takofanes if they were fighting in a grave yard.

I would give it to Takofanes though. Even though Destroyer has more Speed and DEX, with the scepter, and augmented by magic, Takofanes becomes a truely powerful force. And with Takofanes 24d6 PRE attacks, even Destroyer will hesitate to allow the Undying Lord to go first.

[Hermit]

I give it to Destroyer.... the Doc is intelligent enough to manipulate some poor group of super heroes into doing his dirty work for him. Then coming in and finishing the now wearied Lich himself (or having Gigaton do it?).

[phydaux]

The ultimate would be for Destoryer to minipulate a DEMON/Dark Seraph team-up to take on Takofanes.

The only problem there would be Talisman stepping into the evil mystic power vacuum and gathering all the crowns of power for herself.

The Trimageus Council would then call on Witchcraft to oppose her evil twin sister.

And then we would all find out once and for all if Bethany is the returned Archmage or not.

Christ, DOJ just HAS to put out a monthly comic in the OCU. Or if not DOJ, then license the property.

[Monolith]

Originally posted by phydaux
The ultimate would be for Destoryer to minipulate a DEMON/Dark Seraph team-up to take on Takofanes.

The only problem there is that I think Takofanes would just use the crowns blow the heads off of Dark Seraph and his "Crowns" team.

Christ, DOJ just HAS to put out a monthly comic in the OCU. Or if not DOJ, then license the property.

I would love to see a CU comic book. Just to see someone else's interpretations of the characters besides my own would be priceless. Heck, I would even like to see DOJ put a monthly CU short story along the lines of what they did in the Showdown on the website or in DH every month just to help add more flavor to the CU.

[misterdeath]

gotta go with my sidekick on this one.

Takofanes all the way baby.

D

[Keneton]

My heart leans towards Takofanes, but The ER points conclusively to Dr. Destroyer who without Power Pool weighs in at nearly 250ER. Mathematically he should be able to fight 4 or more Takofanes.

As for the defense argument 40+1/2 does not take into consideration Force Walls. Speed Kills, especially with a base 30d6 EB and enough CV to target it.

Do the math and live with it!

[Monolith]

Originally posted by Keneton
Do the math and live with it!

I did the math. Even with Destroyer's Force Wall Takofane drops him in 3 hits. Destroyer drops Takofane in 4. This is not assuming MPA, just strait EB to EB and DEF to DEF.