Bulk Rates on Skills?

**Supreme** · Feb 11th, '03, 08:35 AM

I want to design a character based on the skill-downloading concept from the Matrix. Basically, the guy was working on a machine that downloaded skills into the human brain. When he found out his boss was getting funding from terrorists he tried to turn him in, but was grabbed by the crooked boss instead. The boss jacked my character into the machine and clicked "Download All" which everyone thought would short-out anyone's brain. Because my character is special (i.e., a PC) it didn't and he became The Expert!!!

So, I was thinking why not expand the Universal Translator (with "only known human languages" as a limitation) idea into the other skill enhancers: Universal Scientist, Universal Scholar, etc. So, who amongst us would accept this in their game and who wouldn't?

**Monolith** · Feb 11th, '03, 08:38 AM

I would just buy the character a VPP, Sciences Only: -1, with the Skill Roll being Power: Expert. The same goes for Knowledge Skills and even languages.

cubist · Feb 11th, '03, 08:59 AM

Yes, just go with the skill VPP, its way less abusive and can allow for skill levels as well. Sort of like the character Deepload from the old F.R.E.E.Lancers game/books.

**Supreme** · Feb 11th, '03, 09:07 AM

Believe it or not, I actually think that VPPs are more abusive because they give you much more for much less. A Universal Skill group is 20 points. A VPP skill pool is anywhere from 4 to 6 points (depending on whether or not buying "cosmic" is considered necessary). The Skill VPP allows virutally any skill whereas the Universal Skill Group only allows skills within that group: sciences, languages, knowledge skills, etc. And skills aren't allowed in frameworks are they? 5th Ed. didn't change that right?

**Talon** · Feb 11th, '03, 09:10 AM

I have to point out that this (either a Skill VPP or "Universal Skill") is going to be abusive if the game is skills-intensive -- and it's also going to risk stepping on the toes of every other PC who invests in a Skill.

I have a house rule which says that for purposes of Adjustment Powers, a Skill has an Active Cost equal to the roll times 5 (11- = 55 points, etc.). If I were going to allow a Skills VPP, I would probably use the same rule, so a 14- Skills VPP would be 70 points.

**Monolith** · Feb 11th, '03, 09:10 AM

Originally posted by Supreme
A Universal Skill group is 20 points. A VPP skill pool is anywhere from 4 to 6 points (depending on whether or not buying "cosmic" is considered necessary). The Skill VPP allows virutally any skill whereas the Universal Skill Group only allows skills within that group: sciences, languages, knowledge skills, etc.

That is why I suggested buying each "class" of skills as a separate VPP. You would have a Science VPP, A Knowledge Skill VPP, a DEX-skills VPP, etc. I also suggested you use the Power Skill to make the changes, thus costing the character more points.

And skills aren't allowed in frameworks are they? 5th Ed. didn't change that right?

It is a gray area that is a GM's call. For a dedicated VPP I would have no problems, but I would not allow a player to buy a skill in his Magnetic Pool or something like that.

**tiger** · Feb 11th, '03, 09:31 AM

Dpending on how it functions in a game I don't see a problem. It's just a improved version of Jack Of All Trades

**Supreme** · Feb 11th, '03, 09:47 AM

Originally posted by Geoff Speare
I have to point out that this (either a Skill VPP or "Universal Skill") is going to be abusive if the game is skills-intensive -- and it's also going to risk stepping on the toes of every other PC who invests in a Skill.

I have a house rule which says that for purposes of Adjustment Powers, a Skill has an Active Cost equal to the roll times 5 (11- = 55 points, etc.). If I were going to allow a Skills VPP, I would probably use the same rule, so a 14- Skills VPP would be 70 points.

YOW!!! Okay, a little steep, but you have a point.

Monolith
That is why I suggested buying each "class" of skills as a separate VPP. You would have a Science VPP, A Knowledge Skill VPP, a DEX-skills VPP, etc. I also suggested you use the Power Skill to make the changes, thus costing the character more points.

Even so, that'd still be only 20 points for all five groups.

What about making this Detect-based, as UT in 5th Ed. is.

**tiger** · Feb 11th, '03, 10:13 AM

Originally posted by Supreme
Even so, that'd still be only 20 points for all five groups.

Make them by it per Char based skill. ie..Dex, Int..ect.

Make it a little more expensive for the character, but could also make it alittle less abused

**JmOz** · Feb 11th, '03, 10:25 AM

My house rule on this is as follows:

A character can buy a skill enhancer and then use it to purchase skills in game, there has to be a special effect and the skill must make sense in that sense, there is also a maximum of only being able to spend two points on the skill in question

**Keneton** · Feb 11th, '03, 11:19 AM

In an interseting altenative, my current player character "Psiren" has Cramming with a limitation that she can only aquire a skill after suceeding on a +10 telepathy power on a person posessing the skill.

Customizing this for Matrix, change the limitation to downloadable programs only using neural jack (-1) or something to this effect. For more complex skills by severl levels of cramming.

The VPP is technically not abusive if the Power Pool is kept very low (Max 15 points). With a limitation that skills may only be bought to the base (3pt) level. Noone could then be a kung fu master of best computer guy for 15 points. Thisalso stops the VPP from adding to oter skills.

Overall levels with a limitation are also a good way, assuming the character has a familiarity with what he downloads.

Also the character could have points that are the target of a major transform allowing the skills to change from adventure to adventure.

**ogier300** · Feb 11th, '03, 11:25 AM

So do you think you could buy skill levels only usable with Crammed skill?

That might work pretty decent to reflect a 'downloaded' skill set.

**Keneton** · Feb 11th, '03, 11:27 AM

Of course!

**mattingly** · Feb 11th, '03, 11:31 AM

Under 4th Ed, you couldn't buy levels with Cramming, since Cramming only gave you Familiarities, and you couldn't use Skill Levels with Familiarities. I believe it's still that way under 5th Ed.

Otherwise, for 150 points, you could buy 50 Familiarites and +10 Overall Levels, making you the most highly skilled sneak/ scientist/ pilot/ detective/ etc. on the planet as well as a combat master!

**Supreme** · Feb 11th, '03, 11:37 AM

Originally posted by mattingly
Under 4th Ed, you couldn't buy levels with Cramming, since Cramming only gave you Familiarities, and you couldn't use Skill Levels with Familiarities. I believe it's still that way under 5th Ed.

Otherwise, for 150 points, you could buy 50 Familiarites and +10 Overall Levels, making you the most highly skilled sneak/ scientist/ pilot/ detective/ etc. on the planet as well as a combat master!

Well, there is something to be said for the hard way. For one thing, it means a GM can't disallow on the basis of rule-breaking.