How many publishers does this industry need?

**Michael Hopcroft** · Mar 5th, '03, 06:04 PM

How many companies can survive in the RPG business? How many are needed? And are there companies that should be "culled" from the business for its general health?

**Ghost Archer** · Mar 6th, '03, 01:37 AM

One, one, one. I vote we cull WOTC and, like Ironman did with 'copyright' intringments on his armor, take out all their clones too. Think that will eliminate d20? Sure would get all the crappy games that pollute the industry out and give the REAL game system a broader exposure. Of course, IRL, trash sells better than quality because it appeals to the lowerst common denomiator, just look at TV.

**Monolith** · Mar 6th, '03, 04:07 AM

I heard a saying a couple of weeks ago: "A rising tide floats all boats." I think that pretty well sums it up. The more companies, the more choices. That fact of the matter is, the cream will rise to the top. The companies that are not putting out desired material, or poorly produced material, will eventually fall by the wayside.

As a superhero game fan, I own nearly every game ever produced for that genre. The more I can "steal" from other companies (GOO, GR, ect) the less work I have to do myself; and the less frustrated I become with Hero Games for not giving me as much superhero material as I want. Now changed the word "superhero" to "scifi" or "fantasy" and you can see how beneficial having several companies producing material can be.

**Tom McCarthy** · Mar 6th, '03, 08:33 AM

I think D20 fantasy material is being produced and marketed at an unsustainable rate right now, but so long as your retailer pays attention to what you buy, you'll still get the products you want despite all the competition.

Hopefully, as the D20 fantasy production drops back, stores will stay healthy. Around here, the early Magic craze meant extra revenue for lots of retailers. Some boldly switched to an all CCG emphasis, others used the money to improve all the product lines. Guess which ones are still open.

Still, I like having 3 or more superhero RPG publishers. That would seem to imply we want 3 or more scifi publishers and 3 or more horror publishers, and 3 or more spy/espionage publishers, 9 or more fantasy publishers.

**Starcorp Man** · Mar 6th, '03, 11:51 AM

First post is a "slam d20 post," guys if it wasn't for D&D, there's a good chance this stuff wouldn't even be here. d20 really revitalized the market of gaming, granted there is a glut of d20 stuff out there, but it's falling to the wayside.

**Monolith** · Mar 6th, '03, 12:08 PM

I did not see any "slam d20 post." What I saw was someone asking how many game publishers do we think is needed. D20 was not mentioned, or even hinted at, as far as I can tell. The same question could apply to superhero game publishers, fantasy game publishers, heck, even HERO System publishers (there will soon be 3, if not more).

***Derek Hiemforth*** · Mar 6th, '03, 12:49 PM

Originally posted by Monolith
I did not see any "slam d20 post." What I saw was someone asking how many game publishers do we think is needed.

And as a publisher himself, I'm sure Michael is genuinely interested in getting the opinion of the buying masses about that.

***Thag13*** · Mar 6th, '03, 01:03 PM

some of you may not want to admit it, but d20 D&D 3E as a catlyst for many other RPG lines.

I know of several people that went back to the game stores to get the new D&D and bought other products as well.

I am not a big fan of d20, but WOTC I think helped the entire market somewhat by getting the D&D game back out.

CCGs have finally reached thier market threashold and I think near max potential. Magic isnt going away, but its not the power house it was years ago.

Lets face it, we are in some ways dinosaurs. ONline gaming is making big inroads...consoles games make more money than most first run movies....

Things are gonna get weird...

**Starcorp Man** · Mar 7th, '03, 08:12 AM

Originally posted by Monolith
I did not see any "slam d20 post." What I saw was someone asking how many game publishers do we think is needed. D20 was not mentioned, or even hinted at, as far as I can tell. The same question could apply to superhero game publishers, fantasy game publishers, heck, even HERO System publishers (there will soon be 3, if not more).

This isn't a slam

Originally posted by Ghost Archer One, one, one. I vote we cull WOTC and, like Ironman did with 'copyright' intringments on his armor, take out all their clones too. Think that will eliminate d20? Sure would get all the crappy games that pollute the industry out and give the REAL game system

Man it sure seems like it. It's the first reply to the question. Sorry, shouldn't have said first post, meant first reply.

There is no "one true game system," despite what any company states, WoTC, Hero whatever. WoTC gave a big shot into the arm into a dying industry, and gave small publishers a chance to get off their feet. This can lead to an expansion into other gaming areas, or give those companies the capital to run their business.

**Law Dog** · Mar 7th, '03, 08:33 AM

Originally posted by Starcorp Man
This isn't a slam

Man it sure seems like it. It's the first reply to the question. Sorry, shouldn't have said first post, meant first reply.

There is no "one true game system," despite what any company states, WoTC, Hero whatever. WoTC gave a big shot into the arm into a dying industry, and gave small publishers a chance to get off their feet. This can lead to an expansion into other gaming areas, or give those companies the capital to run their business.

Yup. WOTC, love 'em or hate 'em, they sure spawned a gaming Renaissance.

**nblade** · Mar 7th, '03, 08:39 AM

Originally posted by Thag13

Lets face it, we are in some ways dinosaurs. ONline gaming is making big inroads...consoles games make more money than most first run movies....

I'm not sure if I can completely agree with this statement. I don't think we are going to become dionsaurs any more than chess players are dinosaurs. Yes in the future there will be less of us. Although, I keep thinking when I get moved into the retirement home and everyone sits around the table, will I be wanting to pull out an RPG and would others not interested in RPGs before be willing to play.(sorry I digress). Still while there will be less of us there will always be a core audience that will be attractect to FtF gaming and not other forms. Serveral of the online gaming people I know get thier hack & slash fix from online gaming and then get thier RPG fix via FtF games.

**Toadmaster** · Mar 19th, '03, 08:09 PM

Actually I don't think there is an upper limit as long as the companies are well run and realistic. A large number of game companies means a larger pool of resources to pull from, I'm not particularly fond of the d20 system but I've bought some of the material because its interesting, some of it is crap but other bits are unique. Some game companies are using licenses as their selling points (Judge Dread, LotR, Star Wars, Star Trek), others their rules system (GURPS, HERO) and others both (d20). As long as the companies maintain good buisness sense there shouldn't be ay problem, if small companies with limited resources try to break into a niche market but print with the expectation that they will outsell D&D they are not going to last long. I don't see a large number of companies harming the market, in fact I think fewer companies would have a worse impact (less variety could result in people finding other means of entertainment or just playing old stuff). The card games and computer RPG's had an impact but until a truely interactive computer RPG that can capture the tabletop feel of a face to face game comes along I thing the industry will do fine. In my opinion the sag in the industry and loss of many of the old companies was due as much to poor buisness practice and failure to adjust to the improvement in computer games, the sudden popularity of collectable card games and the internet, as to a drop in the gaming market. I don't think this prolifferation of companies is so much due to a new interest in gaming as to better buisness practices and marketing games that people want to buy.

**Al_Beddow** · Mar 19th, '03, 08:25 PM

Personally, I don't care how many companies there are as long as they put out a good product. With fewer companies then the folks who want to put something out have to do a little more work in the "marketing and sales projection" area as well as beefing up the quality of their products.

Right now there are way too many garbage products being put out under the "d20" license, and some of them are from WotC.