Jedi Mind Tricks and Mental Defense

[Agent333]

In trying to simulate what I've read and seen in Star Wars, it seems appropriate that Jedi would have Mental Defense to keep Dark Jedi from using Mind Control and Mental Illusions on them. However, it seems that Jedi are all open books when it comes to Telepathy, or at least the use of sensing emotions with it. I was wondering if anyone agrees with this observation or not.

Also, if my observation is so, should it be simulated with a limitation on MD such as "Only half verses Telepathy" or some such?

Thanx.

[Derek Hiemforth]

My first instinct is to go the other way around. I think all Jedi Mind Controls & Mental Illusions have a standard Limitation that they don't work on targets above about a 15 EGO. Several times, it's mentioned that the Jedi Mind Trick only works on the "weak-minded". Jabba and Watto were immune, but perhaps not because they had Mental Defense... just because they had good EGO scores.

Under this setup, Jedi would of course be immune, simply because they all have EGOs of 15 or higher.

The Telepathy wouldn't have this restriction, and would only need to roll an effect equal to their EGO to read surface emotions, hence the "open-book" effect...

[EvilGM]

Originally posted by Derek Hiemforth
Jabba and Watto were immune, but perhaps not because they had Mental Defense... just because they had good EGO scores.

I think in those cases, however, their races as a whole weren't affected by them, so it might have been a racial, not just a good EGO thing.

[tiger]

I think the mind trick depends on the level of the jedi as well as the mind of the recepiant.

I have 3 multipowers I worked up 25, 35, 50. So the mind control ranges from 5d6 to 10d6. When you figure the ego of the target, and any mental defense then you find that it would take a Jedi from the 35 or 50 to be able to affect strong willed people.

Let us not forget that it while it has been mentioned a few times only Jabba and the scrap man has shown resistance to the mind trick. This could be something about their race as much as strong willed.


It would also depend on how the GM running the campaign looks at it as well. Personally I think it's both the ego level and Mental Defense. The only problem with the EGO over a set number is common sense tells you that most characters will have a XX or high ego just to stop it.

[Derek Hiemforth]

Originally posted by EvilGM
I think in those cases, however, their races as a whole weren't affected by them, so it might have been a racial, not just a good EGO thing.

Well, maybe. But it doesn't say so in the films, and Jabba berates his lackey for being a "weak-minded fool" (which presumably he wouldn't do if he knew his own immunity stemmed only from his species). Also, why would the Jedis bother to try it on them if they knew it didn't work on their species? Luke's inexperience might explain it with Jabba, but I'd think Qui-Gon would have known better with Watto.

[dbsousa]

I checked the web, and there is a racial reference to Jedi Resistance.

"I'm a Toydarian! Mind tricks dont'a work on me!" - Watto, TPM

I would suggest that there are several classes of minds in the Star Wars Universe for purposes of mental powers...

[keithcurtis]

Originally posted by dbsousa
I checked the web, and there is a racial reference to Jedi Resistance.

"I'm a Toydarian! Mind tricks dont'a work on me!" - Watto, TPM

I would suggest that there are several classes of minds in the Star Wars Universe for purposes of mental powers...

Unless Watto is just ethno-centric. i.e. because he is immune and he is proud of his heritage, he ascribes the immunity to his own lineage, rather than an innate ability.

Much like those who are the products of selective breeding (Old Money families), tout their lineage as proof of their superiority.

Keith "These are not the droids you're---hey waitaminnit!" Curtis

[pawsplay]

Mental Illusions and Mind Control just have a much lower AP cap than Telepathy. Or maybe they have Reduced Penetration.

[Peregrine]

As further support for the 'weak-minded' theory, the clone warriors of AotC were genetically altered to be 'less strong willed' (paraphrasing here), and they are presumably the progenitors of the Imperial Stormtroopers. So the Jedi Mind Trick from ANH worked because the Stormtroopers are bred/engineered to be weaker-willed.

Of course, this was originally intended to make them more susceptible to the Emperor's power...

[Geryon]

Toydarians, Hutts, and a number of other races in star wars are immune to mental force tricks of all kinds. I remember because I had a great Toydarian character though it was a long while before Watto came about. This immunity was mentioned in lots of the novels too.

[Agent333]

Hey guys, thanks a bunch. You've definately given me a better idea of which direction to go. I think I'll leave it (as per Star Hero) that some races will simply count as "Alien" class of mind. Though, I think I'll allow a Jedi to train to affect those minds (5pts per race sound reasonable?)

[additional note: Star Wars d20 says that Jabba and Watto made their Will save rolls verses Luke and Qui-gon. Did someone fall asleep at WOTC when they edited that thing?]

Also, it seems that the "Telepathy vs. Mind Control" has been settled for me. Yoda, Obi-wan and Darth Vader do a LOT of talk about feelings as opposed to thoughts. It would seem that a Detect vs. Emotions might be more appropriate than a TP "emotions only" power. MD would block a mental power, but not necessarily a Detect. Solves the problem I was having, even if it's not kosher in 5E anymore.