Influence of the Internet on gaming

**Jeff T.** · Feb 11th, '03, 10:42 AM

I was curious as to how others thought the 'immediate response' and non face-to-face abilities of the Internet has affected RPG's in the last few years. Yes, the 'net has been around about a decade but only in the last few years has it been truly utilized for mass/quality feedback, as well non-traditional tabling gaming purposes.

This stems from someone mentioning how HERO has been molded now for twenty years, while newer games like M&M and SAS are beginning to melt under the pressure of Internet feedback.

I think the immediate response time of the 'Net makes it even tougher to GM, really. Back in the day, if you couldn't figure out a rule you had to wing it, period. Nowadays, in-game decisions can be moderated by getting online and getting feedback within the hour.

That being said, its nice to see that playtesting and such has a chance to maybe 'fix' a game even before it gets broken.

Opinions?

***Hermit*** · Feb 11th, '03, 11:11 AM

I think the Internet definitely has had an effect. While TT is still the best way to go, in our hectic world, online chats and PBEMs are growing more and more popular as it is easier to find and arrange meetings with players electronically for many of us.

This is both good and bad. I have met some fine players and made some friends, and I have run into some of the most immature or neurotic people you can imagine; the former have been blessings, where as the latter have destroyed whole campaigns. It is harder to 'gauge' players online, and for that matter, GMs.

I know this might not seem to affect the RPGs themselves so much as playing sessions, but there is a feed back. Some games spread like wildfire on the net, others don't. This acts almost like advertising for particular games. "Word of Mouth" is a powerful force again. It goes beyond mere bugs in the game system, though that is a factor. Entire impressions of RPGs are made, and broken, online. One bad group, one abusive employee of a gaming company posting on their forums, one bad experience; and you can lose customers faster than ever before. On the plus side, forums like this, where both the fans and staff are helpful, can endear you to an RPG that much faster. The same for really good PBEMs and IC chats. It isn't always fair to the game(And sometimes it is), but that is how we humans often are.

The fans pointing out flaws and problems in a RPG? I think it depends on the delivery. When the players and customers try to give constructive criticism, or honestly site their preferences with politeness; I think any Game Company would be wise to pluck those gems up and study them. When it's just flaming, negativity, or spam with no suggestions on how to fix the problems; I think it doesn't do anyone too much good. Though, sometimes, if a customer feels they are being ripped off, they have almost an obligation to warn others.

Some will sneer at this as "Mob Rule", others praise what the internet has done as "the gamers finally get to be heard!". I think you get elements of both.

There, that was a whole lot of rambling, wasn't it?

**zornwil** · Feb 11th, '03, 03:08 PM

I don't find that the Internet has a meaningful impact on anything during an F2F game; I wouldn't want to interrupt a game to look something up and have no problem winging it. I've never had that be a problem with players, either, the only times winging it having caused controversy being more in a specific interpretive moment rather than factual look-up situations. But in general sure it's had a meaningful impact in between-game play (enabling it moreso) and of course as a means to actually conduct a game, although I ended up finding that too cumbersome still.

**Herolover** · Feb 11th, '03, 04:35 PM

I think the internet has had a great and large effect on gaming. Not like you think though. More games, more rules are now available, IMO because of the internet.

That said, I don't think it has a place in F2F gaming. I would never stop a game to "look up a rule."

**nblade** · Feb 11th, '03, 05:03 PM

This is a hard area to really determine. I've played some online RPGing via GRIP and I've done years of RPGing F2F. Both had something to offer me.

For a while here in Phoenix, it was hard to find a stable RPG group. Online Gaming via GRIP allowed me to play a few games while I was looking. The sessions were usually shorter than the average F2F game, somewhere around 3 hours maybe. Most of the systems were simpler, Classic Traveller, Fudge, etc. I found it easier to get into character, because I had time type out and think about what and how the character would say it. I don't know why, but i was surprised by this. It was somewhat harder to get the same people together, so adventure where usually more straight forward and yet you could spend time on side items due to the use of IM.

Now that I'm F2F gaming again, I find that some of the issues with GRIP gaming are applying to my F2F Sessions. They are shorter than the old days of 8-10hr gaming.(Thank god, I don't have time to do a 10 hour session anymore). Many of the adventures are more straight forward than they use to be, no spending 4 or 5 session exploring the same dungeon so to speak. Player counter is smaller, I've found that I hate gaming with say over 6 players and 1 GM. (I've done as high as 9 in my youth)

Of course this still doesn't answer the question, has the internet had an effect on gaming. I think so but like Herolover pointed out, not like you think. For many its the wealth of resources both offical and unoffical available for any game you want. I do think that UGTs (Ultimate Gaming Tables), will start to become a bit more common. I know I myself have plans to build one myself, althought it will be a while before I can find a place to put it.

**Fitz** · Feb 11th, '03, 05:54 PM

I can only speak for my own experience, but the main influence the internet has had on my own gaming is in easy access to resources.

At first, I got all excited about being able to grab pix and pregenerated scenarios, but over time my game preparation has returned more to the way I used to do it in the dim, distant past. The big difference is that these days I seldom have to visit a library to do my research; I can usually count on finding most of what I need on the net.

I've never done any online gaming, either CRPG or internet-facilitated traditional gaming (with one *very* brief experiment in an email campaign which lasted less than a month), so in that respect the internet has had no real impact on my gaming environment.

**Michael Hopcroft** · Feb 11th, '03, 07:00 PM

In my mind, the pincipal impact of the Internet has been on the production, distribution and creation of new games.

As a publisher, I can work with collaborators from all over the world as easily as I can work with my friend across the street. More easily, even, with Instant Messaging of various types.

I have access as a publisher to resources that five years ago nobody could ever have dreamed of. So many, in fact, that it is far too easy to be drowned out among all the hype and all the new companies springing up.

As I prepare for DunDraCon (where i will meet one of my collaborators for the first time in eight months) and the GAMA trade show, I marvel at how far I have come, how far I have yet to go, and how I would never have been able to do any of it without the Internet.

**Ghost Archer** · Feb 12th, '03, 01:17 PM

I've been at Champions for 21 years now, the first seven years I played F2F at a local hobby shop where literally hundreds of players drifted through my games. When the shop closed the games moved into my game room at home but the volumn of players dropped to only about ten, for the first year or so. Then it dropped to six and stayed for a couple more years then we stopped gaming completely.

When the internet arrived, I began scanning this site and that, not really looking for anything until the concept of chat began to interest me. What I found in RP chat was chaos, mega powerful morons, overpowered immature copies of a myriad of published characters and absolutely no real rules system. Anyone could do anything. Hermit points out his encounters with "some of the most immature or neurotic people you can imagine" and I found all that and more in chat. I also found some of the most interesting and imaginative players I have ever known.
Nothing against Hermit, but I don't have any trouble figuring out the losers from the gems, if fact it's easier for me then F2F because people tend to feel safer behind the mask of the 'net.
I gathered a group of truly fine players and moved into a Yahoo Group and promptly introduced the lot to Champions. You cannot believe how well it went. Everyone, without exception loved the game and loved the fact I could create the character they had been playing without rules in chat. We played there for a couple of years until Real Life reared it's ugly head and the group dwindled.
Then came WebRPG and a whole new world opened up. I started a new group, this time, they came to me, through my website and I've been able to keep a steady flow of not only adventure going but a steady flow of new players. For me, the 'net has give me a chance to expand my own ropleplaying as a GM as well as giving me a chance to play on a constant basis as I have been lucky enough to find a perfect GM partner. Our games are now richer in Roleplaying and character developement AND far more frequently played. Unfortunately, both my GM partner and I have been very ill the last few months but I am now on the mend while she has many months of treatment still ahead of her. I am going right back into the game, picking it up again this Friday as if the last few months have never happened. I am adding four new players, calling back my half dozen regulars and returning to the joys of Champions.

Has the internet had any influence on gaming? For me, a resounding yes!

***Hermit*** · Feb 12th, '03, 01:41 PM

Originally posted by Ghost Archer

When the internet arrived, I began scanning this site and that, not really looking for anything until the concept of chat began to interest me. What I found in RP chat was chaos, mega powerful morons, overpowered immature copies of a myriad of published characters and absolutely no real rules system. Anyone could do anything. Hermit points out his encounters with "some of the most immature or neurotic people you can imagine" and I found all that and more in chat. I also found some of the most interesting and imaginative players I have ever known.

That was my experience as well.

Interesting to note though, is there is nothing saying a great Role-Player will necessarily be a great Player. Some folks who I would nominate for an Oscar if we had such, couldn't grasp such simple concepts as sharing the spotlight, seperating OOC and IC, and so on. The reverse was also true. Some folks had lame concepts and poor RP delivery that made me cringe, but were the nicest folks you could meet. The difference is, Role-Playing could eventually be learned, being a good PLAYER is more of a matter of personal intergrity and (no pun intended) character. That takes a different sort of education

Originally posted by Ghost Archer

Nothing against Hermit, but I don't have any trouble figuring out the losers from the gems, if fact it's easier for me then F2F because people tend to feel safer behind the mask of the 'net.

Hey, no insult taken. I envy you.

It's that same mask that works against you. One example, we had a group of players in an online chat. One player, a great Role Player if a bit quick to label others, apparently had more real life baggage than we knew. She transfered some ...personal issues, onto a character of mine, and tried to make playing him a living hell. If I'd known she was neurotic, I might have at least tread more cautiously around her.*Sighs*

Nice site btw

Oh, that's the other great thing about the internet. Making game related websites is fun

**Agent X** · Feb 12th, '03, 06:47 PM

Originally posted by Ghost Archer
I've been at Champions for 21 years now, the first seven years I played F2F at a local hobby shop where literally hundreds of players drifted through my games. When the shop closed the games moved into my game room at home but the volumn of players dropped to only about ten, for the first year or so. Then it dropped to six and stayed for a couple more years then we stopped gaming completely.

When the internet arrived, I began scanning this site and that, not really looking for anything until the concept of chat began to interest me. What I found in RP chat was chaos, mega powerful morons, overpowered immature copies of a myriad of published characters and absolutely no real rules system. Anyone could do anything. Hermit points out his encounters with "some of the most immature or neurotic people you can imagine" and I found all that and more in chat. I also found some of the most interesting and imaginative players I have ever known.
Nothing against Hermit, but I don't have any trouble figuring out the losers from the gems, if fact it's easier for me then F2F because people tend to feel safer behind the mask of the 'net.
I gathered a group of truly fine players and moved into a Yahoo Group and promptly introduced the lot to Champions. You cannot believe how well it went. Everyone, without exception loved the game and loved the fact I could create the character they had been playing without rules in chat. We played there for a couple of years until Real Life reared it's ugly head and the group dwindled.
Then came WebRPG and a whole new world opened up. I started a new group, this time, they came to me, through my website and I've been able to keep a steady flow of not only adventure going but a steady flow of new players. For me, the 'net has give me a chance to expand my own ropleplaying as a GM as well as giving me a chance to play on a constant basis as I have been lucky enough to find a perfect GM partner. Our games are now richer in Roleplaying and character developement AND far more frequently played. Unfortunately, both my GM partner and I have been very ill the last few months but I am now on the mend while she has many months of treatment still ahead of her. I am going right back into the game, picking it up again this Friday as if the last few months have never happened. I am adding four new players, calling back my half dozen regulars and returning to the joys of Champions.

Has the internet had any influence on gaming? For me, a resounding yes!

Hey, let me know next time you get interested in new players. I joined my first PBEM just before Christmas, a golden age game, and it fizzled pretty quickly. That was very sad for me. I really liked Iron Joe. How many characters have huge industrial wrenches they swing around?

**OneSmallGod** · Feb 13th, '03, 10:28 AM

The web is the place my games "go to live between sessions". All of the blue-book stuff, "Where are they now", and random news events and background info has ended up on my website or my email.

When one session ends and the PC's have a string of questions and sources they want to look up, we conduct that over email or they seek the articles on that group or that topic which have been entered into my website. That way, they get together at the next session and the Underworld type tells them what's the word on the street, while Mr. Super-science explains the significance of the clues his specialist contacts have been working on... The interaction between players is more interesting than if I had a pre-set tip sheet and had to make up the rest on the fly. (It also means I can remember what I said from one session to the next!)

It's a tool - a handy one.

I'm interested in PBEM, but I've never given it a try...

**Boll Weevil** · Feb 13th, '03, 12:02 PM

Thank god for the internet. I have not played a face-to-face game in about six years. The group(s) I played with slowly went away. Some new faces would show up, but they just wanted to smash things then get upset when their characters get arrested at the end of the adventure.

If it weren't for PBEM, I would have lost touch with gaming altogether.
I was never that great at GM'ing. There, I said it!! This is unfortunate, as I GM'ed EVERY TIME WE PLAYED. I have a pretty good understanding of the rules but not fluid enough to resolve disputes and keep the game going.
PBEM is different. First off, I am am crazy about SFX in my games. When I GM a PBEM I can remove all the game-mechanics from my narration. While I don't always succeed (nor should I necessarily), I like to describe the scenarios in real-world terms only. I do all the PER and Skill rolls. Half the time, the players don't even know they've made a roll (like Oratory).

**joeteller** · Feb 13th, '03, 12:24 PM

I don't roleplaying over the Internet.... either in Chat rooms or email or muds/mushes. I tried this years ago and it had a zero satisfaction rate in general.

I also don't do PBMs of any sort (although I ran one thru the post awful back in the early 80s with 100 players worldwide) as they also are just not the same.

Give me FTF tabletop, regular sessions (not one shots) and complex plots and detailed characters any day.

I also have very little liking for CRPGs (which generally are just hack n slash things like Diablo) as they just have no real depth. Without depth a game isn't worth playing.

As far as the publishing value of the Internet thats a whole other thing, and a very important one. I support epublishing and purchasing direct from publishers, as local stores rarely have enough variety to make them useful.

(The local stores have become havens for D20 Idiots around here, with very little beyond that appearing on the shelves unless you special order it and brow-beat the store owners to carry what you want to buy).