Survey: Most Useful Things in SourceBooks

[cubist]

Originally posted by loraxxx
you sound like a former member of the detroit gaming community....

but really--i'm not suggesting that HERO copy the PALLADIUM format, just suggesting that there are ways to increase their amount of graphic content that won't break HERO'S bank--i'm using PALLADIUM as an example, 'cause i know the big "KS" is frugal with a dollar....

but really, are you from the "D" or have you jusy had some bad experiences here....?

btw--all my PALLADIUM stuff has held together fine over the years--i'm not even going to think about arguing with you about kevin's ego, though....

ostly I've heard the first hand accounts of people he's screwed over that actually really halped to make his company, guys like Bill Coffin, I've had PBook news group and site board run-ins with his hag ex-wif and I was the one that started the online Jihad against the cover of the 2nd ed. book that he obliquely mentions in the introduction to that book. I never lost pages out of Palladium books, but have had broken bindings and almost every one of their books I've had over the years had that crappy laminate covering peel off the book's covers. And yes, he's even too cheap to get a proper layout program to make the books and does it all by hand, which explains the piss poor layout in his books.

[loraxxx]

Originally posted by cubist
ostly I've heard the first hand accounts of people he's screwed over that actually really halped to make his company, guys like Bill Coffin, I've had PBook news group and site board run-ins with his hag ex-wif and I was the one that started the online Jihad against the cover of the 2nd ed. book that he obliquely mentions in the introduction to that book. I never lost pages out of Palladium books, but have had broken bindings and almost every one of their books I've had over the years had that crappy laminate covering peel off the book's covers. And yes, he's even too cheap to get a proper layout program to make the books and does it all by hand, which explains the piss poor layout in his books.

ahh--the magic of the internet--it brings together people who normally would have no reason to ever speak to each other....

[Ghost who Walks]

Originally posted by The Mind Master
What's next? Buying doors as entangle barriers usable by others? Come on.)

Is this a joke?
Everyone knows that you doors are only entagles if they have locks!
We need to stay in focus here...doors don't stop people...locks do. unless you are an alien ina Mel Gibson movie)

On the actual topic:

My view of art is simple. realisticly, you are going to looks at this thing a couple of times, and then move on. It may inspire you, it may not.

Having said that, each presented character needs a picture. I wasn't able to use that "Watchers of the Dragon" module for years because of a lack of artwork. Art is the first thing I look at.

But, after the third time through, I am looking at content. Thats when I am looking at how and if I can use the stuff.

Maps are always good, but HERO has never really had much success with them. Few game companies do, now that I think about it. In any case, floorplans and stuff are readily available on the net, or can be made easily with simple programs like paintbrush. What we really want are floorplans of superhero bases...There was a thread on here a while ago looking for plans of the Avengers mansion, surely better work can be done than that?

[The Mind Master]

Originally posted by Ghost who Walks
Is this a joke?
Everyone knows that you doors are only entagles if they have locks!
We need to stay in focus here...doors don't stop people...locks do. unless you are an alien ina Mel Gibson movie)

On the actual topic:

My view of art is simple. realisticly, you are going to looks at this thing a couple of times, and then move on. It may inspire you, it may not.

Having said that, each presented character needs a picture. I wasn't able to use that "Watchers of the Dragon" module for years because of a lack of artwork. Art is the first thing I look at.

But, after the third time through, I am looking at content. Thats when I am looking at how and if I can use the stuff.

Maps are always good, but HERO has never really had much success with them. Few game companies do, now that I think about it. In any case, floorplans and stuff are readily available on the net, or can be made easily with simple programs like paintbrush. What we really want are floorplans of superhero bases...There was a thread on here a while ago looking for plans of the Avengers mansion, surely better work can be done than that?

Ghost, those are the kind of maps I'm talking about...maps of the most colorful bases of whatever agency the sourcebook is detailing. And I've seen a number of good ones in the past. I'm not talking about a map of an office building full of cubicles, if that's all it is. Yeah, I could do that myself or find one to download. I'm talking about things like the Undersea Base in UNTIL, which would be a cool spot for a scenario to take place...or the Gateway space station. The maps themselves suggest plot hooks. I find that players enjoy an element of exploring in the scenario, if it's a cool place. A running battle in a villain base whee you never know what you're going to find behind the next door is a heck of a lot of fun.

Out of curiousity, why do you say that Hero hasn't had much success with them in the past?

Question for those who have the books...do the new Viper and Coil sourcebooks provide maps of any of the agency bases?

As for art, I think the Hero books have a good balance. I like an attractive layout, but I don't buy the books for the pictures, I buy them to give me some help in creating adventures for my players. And to me, the (interesting) maps are some of the most helpful things.

[Metaphysician]

The VIPER book has maps for two Nests in it.

[allen]

Originally posted by The Mind Master
Question for those who have the books...do the new Viper and Coil sourcebooks provide maps of any of the agency bases?

<i>Sharper Than A Serpent's Tooth</i> has maps for a VIPER Nest and one of COIL's secret lairs (since the organization is just getting underway in the 5E Champions Universe, it only has four bases... err... that is until you run the adventure and the PCs discover one of the bases. After that it's down to three. Such is the life of a mastervillain... )

<i>VIPER: Coils Of The Serpent</i> has maps for two Nests.

[loraxxx]

Originally posted by The Mind Master
....As for art, I think the Hero books have a good balance. I like an attractive layout, but I don't buy the books for the pictures, I buy them to give me some help in creating adventures for my players. And to me, the (interesting) maps are some of the most helpful things.

i'd be willing to agree with you on the amount of art presented, especially in recent years, although i must admit, i'm using modules for the old V+V game as my standard....

they had a scenarios, character illos, maps and paper figures, plus mini comics and splash pages....

they weren't cheap, but they weren't overly expensive either (for the time), i'm pretty sure that had the system been as good as HERO they'd still be a major player in SHRPG....

[The Mind Master]

Originally posted by ghost-angel

As for Bases needing Life Support .. if the base is in Downtown City and running to the grocery store when you run out of Cheerio's is an easily accomplished tash then it is extranious. When the base is located a hundred forty seven miles above the planet then running out of Cheerios won't be an issue until you run out of CocoaPuffs and LuckyCharms and soon you've got a team of superheros staring at a box of stale Grapenuts going "I thought YOU went grocery shopping." THEN Life Support becomes important because it tells you how long before said super-team resorts to fighting over stale Grapenuts. It's also good for StarHero to represent getting stuck in space with no engines and wondering just how long before the food runs out...

Of course, YMMV.

If the PC's paid for the ship in STAR HERO with their own character points, then I can sort of see this. But it's of no use to include character points spent in a base that is owned by NPC's. What possible relevance does it have on gameplay?
A description and layout is much more useful. If a villain wants to poison this Life-Support food supply, for example, would he have to have some sort of life-support drain or supress? Could he steal the food, or burn it up? IMHO, the whole thing is silly. Just state that it has a food supply, and show me where the refrigeration units are where it is stored. And if there are refrigeration units, do they have to be bought as some sort of cold power, bought with a limitation (only to preserve perishable food items)? You see how ridiculous it gets.


Yes, you need to know the game mechanics for any weaponry and defenses of a base, also sensor devices like radar or sonar, but not much beyond that needs to be put into game mechanic terms. It doesn't come into play. Maps, however, do.

[AtomicGladiator]

Originally posted by The Mind Master
If the PC's paid for the ship in STAR HERO with their own character points, then I can sort of see this. But it's of no use to include character points spent in a base that is owned by NPC's. What possible relevance does it have on gameplay?
A description and layout is much more useful. If a villain wants to poison this Life-Support food supply, for example, would he have to have some sort of life-support drain or supress? Could he steal the food, or burn it up? IMHO, the whole thing is silly. Just state that it has a food supply, and show me where the refrigeration units are where it is stored. And if there are refrigeration units, do they have to be bought as some sort of cold power, bought with a limitation (only to preserve perishable food items)? You see how ridiculous it gets.


Yes, you need to know the game mechanics for any weaponry and defenses of a base, also sensor devices like radar or sonar, but not much beyond that needs to be put into game mechanic terms. It doesn't come into play. Maps, however, do.

I tend to agree with your point about Life Support. Sometimes things get overly complicated when you try to look at things through the filter of "how would this work in game terms?" For example, it makes sense on one level to equip space vehicles with endurance reserve power packs and "auxiliary" endurance reserves if the first one should fail. But realistically, what GM is going to take the time to subtract the endurance from the battery for every system in operation in the ship's phase? What a nightmare! Easier just to assume that the ship's designers created a power system that can power all the ship's functions and let it go at that. To micro-simulate these things does get ridiculous. Does any GM really mess with this kind of stuff?

[ChuckB]

Originally posted by AtomicGladiator
Does any GM really mess with this kind of stuff?

Truth be told , I don't really see the point of making PCs spend points on bases. Seems to be more of a tool for GMs than for players. Gets PCs together quickly and is often used as a plot tool.

The main purpose of a base is for it to get broken into.

[badger3k]

Originally posted by AtomicGladiator
I tend to agree with your point about Life Support. Sometimes things get overly complicated when you try to look at things through the filter of "how would this work in game terms?" For example, it makes sense on one level to equip space vehicles with endurance reserve power packs and "auxiliary" endurance reserves if the first one should fail. But realistically, what GM is going to take the time to subtract the endurance from the battery for every system in operation in the ship's phase? What a nightmare! Easier just to assume that the ship's designers created a power system that can power all the ship's functions and let it go at that. To micro-simulate these things does get ridiculous. Does any GM really mess with this kind of stuff?

Of course we all do, right? I'm not the only one to try and figure out the cost of toilet paper, am I ? (I figured cosmetic transform or CE:clean up poopy, with non-recoverable charges. Autofire for using more than one sheet).

[rayoman]

Just to be devil's advocate here. The following comment is from the past when I owned a lot of Palladium stuff.

I NEVER had a Palladium book that fell apart. I can't say the same for Hero (past). Current Hero, I have yet to have a book fall apart.

Recycled Art: You better check Fred because you should notice some art from 4th edition which some of that art was recycled from 3rd edition. If you want I can't point out specific pieces.

I don't blame companies from resusing art. Cuts costs, which ultimately costs me less $$.

Originally posted by cubist
Actually Palladium manages to keep the prices down by using poor bindings, covers that peel apart, recycled ART AND TEXT

[levi]

Originally posted by Ghost who Walks
Is this a joke?
Everyone knows that you doors are only entagles if they have locks!
We need to stay in focus here...doors don't stop people...locks do. unless you are an alien ina Mel Gibson movie)

On the actual topic:

My view of art is simple. realisticly, you are going to looks at this thing a couple of times, and then move on. It may inspire you, it may not.

Having said that, each presented character needs a picture. I wasn't able to use that "Watchers of the Dragon" module for years because of a lack of artwork. Art is the first thing I look at.

But, after the third time through, I am looking at content. Thats when I am looking at how and if I can use the stuff.

Maps are always good, but HERO has never really had much success with them. Few game companies do, now that I think about it. In any case, floorplans and stuff are readily available on the net, or can be made easily with simple programs like paintbrush. What we really want are floorplans of superhero bases...There was a thread on here a while ago looking for plans of the Avengers mansion, surely better work can be done than that?

I don't really have anything to say about your reply, but I want to say something about you, so that I can get added to your Signature.

"Put /THAT/ in your signature!" -Levi

[The Mind Master]

Originally posted by badger3k
Of course we all do, right? I'm not the only one to try and figure out the cost of toilet paper, am I ? (I figured cosmetic transform or CE:clean up poopy, with non-recoverable charges. Autofire for using more than one sheet).

Heh!

[zornwil]

Of course it depends on the book, and sometimes I can be well-surprised by what I'll find in a book, but re sourcebooks, here are some typical things I look for:

in a scenario book (which I very rarely by) or a setting book (again, rarely buy), I'm happy to find lots of maps at the hex-level, and that will encourage me to buy books I ordinarily wouldn't

in general, I just like seeing new ideas; so as I browse a book, in particular, regardless of what it is I'll buy it if I see 2-4 interesting ideas; I bought a Palladium book on mutants precisley because of this

I don't use characters out of books much at all; however, I did buy the character packs for various books just to have them for handy reference and mucking about for ideas

however, I do like flavor, and sometimes a book with a lot of flavor, and nothing more, can suck me in; by flavor i just mean interesting genre-specific or setting-specific writing that is just very engaging

stuff I wouldn't want to develop myself, which for me has been things like the animals from the Bestiary, or the compendium of powers in the UNTIL and Grimoire books - utilitarian, but definitely useful

new rules; I'm 50/50 on this; in one sense I'm not so interested in that I don't want to collect more rules for their own sake, in fact I abhor that; but I do like seeing how published books either evolve the rules and give one a sense of where things are going, and I also like any sort of rules idea that's inspirational