FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

[Talon]

Historical research aside, it would be good to have a little bit more accuracy in the armor/weapons area: list armor by actual pieces that existed rather than by hit location; calculate armor weights with some eye for reality rather than just based on the 3d6 bell curve; etc.

[mattingly]

I'd also like to see some more granularity on weapons and armor.

• Bashing versus Piercing versus Slashing -- Which weapons do which types, and which armors defend effectively against each? How do you buy armor that has a +2 PD only versus piecing attacks?
• Speeds -- Should some weapons have Lightning Reflexes built in? Should some weapons be penalized on speed (negative Lightning Reflexes)?
• Maneuverability -- Should some weapons penalize DCV? Cost extra END?

And although I'm not always fond of it, the "roll for initiative" is ingrained in my brain as a part of the fantasy genre. How and when should this be used in Fantasy Hero? Having a set chart of inits seems a little out of genre for me. If I know my "monk" always goes first, and then I'm met by someone that goes before me, everyone knows that that character will be very hard to hit, and will always go before all of us, etc.

For magic items, I want to see coverage of how/when can/should a wizard/alchemist "get" XP from ingredients, instead of spending his own XP, for creating items?

How to fantasy game with no healing potions.

Hidden gods. How to play a member of the Faithful when the gods don't always answer prayers, and give no obvious response to priestly spells. Clerics as guesswork.

As said before, how to make magic feel magical. How to put the awe and wonder into fantasy. I've gamed with too many players who treat magic like it's under every rock. "Okay, I need seven hits off the wand of healing."

2. Tie the bibliography in with Chapter 1. These books are high/low/epic etc.

I strongly second this one. In fact, I'd like to see character examples related to power levels. Something like "The LOTR hobbit quartet out at 25+25, but by the end of the trilogy, had earned 50 XP."

I'd also like to see Transplantational Fantasy covered. What happens when modern people get sent to a fantasy world? I want to cover the Wizard Of Oz genre.

[buzz]

Originally posted by Storn
Swordbearer had an over extensive, but highly useful, chart for overland travel in various terrain for foot and for horse.

It always warms my heart to see people who remember this game. One of the Best Games I Never Played.

[buzz]

Feel free to smack me if this is already covered in books like SH, UMA, or NH; I still haven't made my way through them yet.

I have zippo experience using HERO in a heroic context. Champions has always been my reason for using HERO. Ergo, a discussion of exactly which bits from FREd, particularly in regards to combat, should be used would be welcome.

Basically, which options best suit a particular fantasy sub-genre? Should bleeding and knockdown rules be reserved for "low" fantasy campaigns? What if I want to emulate Gimli and Aragorn slashing their way through a horde of orcs? What rules would be too lethal in that context?

[CleverName]

MAGIC

I would have to agree than in the magic systems chapter I would like to see the possibility of creating magic users that have larger repertoires of spells that what most power frameworks/VPPs seem to be capable of delivering.

A more freeform, Ars Magica/ Mage school would be great too, but that sounds like another book to me.

XP/Power Progression
HERO has the most transparent XP system on the market, much to its favor. It’s weakest link is in the matter of handling the progression of power in a long-running FH campaign. If the GM is too strict, the characters tend to grow together – their skills and stats begin to conform and overlap. (I can’t buy any more STR, so I guess I’ll pick up that lockpicking skill too, etc.) I’d like to see

Promotion of Mookism
What I mean by this is that many HERO fans (esp. newbie GMs) get too hung up on figuring out point values of every shopkeeper, orc, and tin can when they just don’t need to. When the players run into the 5 goblins that are not meant to pose a real challenge for the players, DON’T BOTHER POINT BALANCING THE MOOKS! It’s a waste of time being that anal with HERO.

Realism
I agree about the exhaustive rules on weapons. But, I’d like to see some crossover with UMA on styles and some optional “realistic� rules. For example, armor does not make you clumsy, it makes you exhausted (armor should cost END to maneuver in).

[Storn]

Originally posted by buzz
It always warms my heart to see people who remember this game. One of the Best Games I Never Played.

I played Swordbearer for several years. Not bad for $10.00, what I paid for it originally. I stole some stuff from Runequest (mostly spells) since both systems were so similar.

but yes, a great game, although magic as it was presented confused me somewhat and we always ran very low magic campaigns and kinda avoided the whole issue.

Unknown Armies, with its "new" take on percentile die-rolling, has given me some food for thought on how to revive and modernize Swordbearer. I love UA's damage resolution, its ability to flip-flop dice. Makes a percentile system much more interesting and alive than the flat probability it used to be.

[James Gillen]

Originally posted by mattingly

And although I'm not always fond of it, the "roll for initiative" is ingrained in my brain as a part of the fantasy genre. How and when should this be used in Fantasy Hero? Having a set chart of inits seems a little out of genre for me. If I know my "monk" always goes first, and then I'm met by someone that goes before me, everyone knows that that character will be very hard to hit, and will always go before all of us, etc.

The new Hurry manuever in 5th Edition allows you to add 1d6 to your DEX for initiative rating at the cost of OCV/accuracy.
I don't have the book in front of me, but it should be under Optional Combat Manuevers.

JG

[slaughterj]

Originally posted by mattingly
How to fantasy game with no healing potions.

That's easy as pie! That's basically how I'm running Lankhmar right now, sometimes the characters will carry the same wounds over several sessions, slowly healing, and tend to act accordingly, i.e., not recklessly charge into battle, but look to handle other business or stealthy affairs.

[slaughterj]

FH Requests:
1. Magic systems using each approach - straight point-buy, and under each power framework (probably already covered)
2. Discussions on magic system restrictions - ways to keep magic from being a daily constant/regular happenstance, and ramifications if such restrictions are not there (i.e., ease of teleport, create food, cure disease, etc. really changes things).
3. A balanced weapon chart - may be a bit less realistic, but the 4e FH chart didn't seem to favor any particular weapon type, and if there is a game mechanic (e.g. particular weapons better than one another) that is better than another, that is what the PCs will typically use, resulting in less diversity.
4. Rules on alchemy (e.g., potion-making), and creation of other magic items too, including ways to make potions, etc. with (straightforward) and without points costs (i.e., no XP versions).

[mattingly]

The new Hurry manuever in 5th Edition allows you to add 1d6 to your DEX for initiative

Yes, I've used it a few times already. I was talking about doing the same kind of thing to everyone. Adding 1d6 to everyone's DEX all the time. That way, Hurry would give you DEX+2d6.

What I'm wondering is if mixing up the chart order like that would help or hurt the average fantasy encounter.

[slaughterj]

Originally posted by mattingly
Yes, I've used it a few times already. I was talking about doing the same kind of thing to everyone. Adding 1d6 to everyone's DEX all the time. That way, Hurry would give you DEX+2d6.

What I'm wondering is if mixing up the chart order like that would help or hurt the average fantasy encounter.

Just another roll that slows the game down, though I do agree that *expecting* when you get to go does take a little away from the fun...

[Monolith]

I would not mind seeing some information and expansion on horror and fear. The fantasy genre, more than almost any other genre, seems to constantly have encounters with eerie and horrific creatures (undead, monsterous beings, demons, etc). A few paragraphs expanding on ways to properly use fear and terror with the game (modifiers to PRE, expanded PRE charts, etc) could be very informative and useful.

[Toadmaster]

I like the idea of including the basics for a number of magic systems instead of just one, I do agree that sometime needs to be spent explaining how to make magic feel like magic and not just a power. Also how to make wizards feel differant from priests and psionic differant from both. Specifically I would like to see examples of

A "D&D" clone magic system (spellbook, limited number of spells per day etc) same goes for the diety based "d&d" magic as many are going to be using d20 as a starting point, make sure to include a "magic missile" clone as that seems to be asked every couple of months.

A Runequests style "rune" based magic for a very differant style.

A "mana" based system such as GURPS (endurance battery?)

Magic with required prequisites (you need this to even have the potential to use magic or to cast a specific spell)

and finally a sort of silly or wild magic system such as the spell singer series, you have an idea of what will happen but no idea of exactly how it will occur. Caster shouts "Die" and points a finger and a flock of geese appears flying into the target knocking him off balance resulting in a fall from the cliff or sings the Who's "bucket T" and summons a riding snail.

Some discussion of weapon design, not neccessarily a list of weapons but more a list of effects for example bashing weapons might use penetrating, sharply pointed weapons could be AP, how to include manuevers into weapons such as hooks for unhorsing riders, balanced weapons recieve +1 OCV etc. I realize this might take some historical research but if you don't connect these to specific weapons but mearly include them for ideas the research shouldn't have to be to detailed. Also cost and production considerations for differant types of weapons (swords being all metal are more difficult to make and thus cost more than a wooden club and a composite weapon such as an axe or mace are in between).

Some description of historical societies, there have been a few examples on the boards, nothing super detailed but enough to allow a somewhat historical society to be built, along with this a discussion of the effects various fantasy elements might have (magic, fantastic beasts, roaming bands of goblins etc)

Justice systems and the effect magic might have.

The effects magic might have on society and economics, magical fire would improve the quality of metal working, magical travel could reduce the costs associated with shipping materials or would they, the benefits might be overtaken by monopolies of mages guilds. Etc

These last three could fill books but even a few pages of these kinds of considerations would be really useful for developing believable societies.


Thats all I can think of for now.

[Nelijal]

Old Man wrote:
2) Please, please, I'm begging you, publish a balanced weapon chart. Forget "realism". Forget points. What matters is that a player should not be penalized for using a hammer instead of a spear. 1st ed. FH had this problem, where certain weapons (franciscas) were just plain better than others at any STR level. 4th ed. FH had this problem and added to it by making sure all the STR mins came down on a breakpoint, creating extreme granularity. And in 5th, spears are just wildly superior to any other weapon in the chart, so that's all anyone will use. So if you can, please even out the weapon chart. If you can't do that, just put the 1st ed chart back in; it's the best of the bunch.

IMO, the weapon and armor data should represent the good and bad points of the equipment, 'balanced' or not. Some weapons and armor weren't balanced. Whether players just minmax the weapons table or actually roleplay their choices is a campaign issue, not a rules issue.

mattingly wrote:
Bashing versus Piercing versus Slashing -- Which weapons do which types, and which armors defend effectively against each? How do you buy armor that has a +2 PD only versus piecing attacks?

I second this wholeheartedly. A much overlooked aspect of armor, although probably because it would add a bit of complexity to combat. I've only seen this mentioned in the Palladium books and in RoleMaster combat (though I am far from being well-read all the game systems out there).

[Yamo]

HOwever, most 150 pt Mages have 3 - 6 spells. That is too few, IMO. FH magic has always felt very limiting to me because of the point costs.

Not to digress, too much, but this caught my eye.

Personally, I've found that a magic Multipower is the best way to counteract this. The mage pays big up front for a "mana pool" of sorts, but each indidudual spell (slot in the MP) is very cheap.

Under this system, it's very rare for a new spell to run a mage more than 3-5 RP.