Detect

[Richard Logue]

Can Detect be use to sense abstract concepts? Is there a Detect Evil, for instance? Detect Health?

Richard

[BNakagawa]

At the 10 point level you can detect abstract objects or phenomena.

Since Detect Life Energy is given as an example, there's your Detect Health.

As for detect evil, there's an entire thread from the old board on this subject.

My take is no. You can't detect evil because you can't define evil objectively.

Of course, if you're playing in a game where EVIL has concrete properties (e.g. can pick up this magic book without suffering damage) then in that context, you could detect evil.

More often evil is merely a label for properties you find disagreeable.

$0.02

[GamePhil]

On the other hand, you might be able to have a Detect Evil where Evil is defined by a character's subjective criteria, even if it has no objective reality.

[Wormhole]

My take is no. You can't detect evil because you can't define evil objectively.

How about Detect Noble/Ignoble intentions?

[Zaratustra]

How about Detect Noble/Ignoble intentions?

That would work, except you'd start getting players that kill people because they have evil thoughts. And villains that really believe they're out to save mankind (You must destroy to rebuild!) would not register. Hmm. Could be fun.

[Tech]

I disagree with BNakagawa's take on Detect Evil. Evil is definably objective. To say evil is not definable means good cannot be definable either. The attack on Sept 11 was definitely evil. Regardless, if your GM says it's you can buy it, go for it. Someone who can detect an evil presence is quite common, whether comic books, fantasy books or whatever else.

[Aroooo]

Originally posted by Tech
I disagree with BNakagawa's take on Detect Evil. Evil is definably objective. To say evil is not definable means good cannot be definable either. The attack on Sept 11 was definitely evil. Regardless, if your GM says it's you can buy it, go for it. Someone who can detect an evil presence is quite common, whether comic books, fantasy books or whatever else.

Not wanting to get into a 9/11 debate, my opinion is there are two points of view when defining "evil."

There is your 4 color comic book setting, in which case "evil" within that genre I feel, could be strictly defined. The violent destruction of any building would be evil. This also works well for Pulp games.

But if you're playing a more 'realistic' setting like Danger International, then "evil" becomes more subjective. I don't think in this sort of setting you could have a 'universal' defenition of evil. But for the purposes of Detect, the player/character could certainly list their criteria for evil. My Detect Evil may not detect the same things as your Detect Evil, although the power is the same.

Aroooo

[Tech]

Sounds good Aroooo (counts the o's). Buy it as your concept fits. By the way, why'd you pick Aroooo (count's the o's again)? I kinda like it. Gotta werewolf character somewhere? Or is it... YOU'RE a werewolf?!

[Aroooo]

Originally posted by Tech
Sounds good Aroooo (counts the o's). Buy it as your concept fits. By the way, why'd you pick Aroooo (count's the o's again)? I kinda like it. Gotta werewolf character somewhere? Or is it... YOU'RE a werewolf?!

Won't go OT for too long, but it came from a fantasy game many many years ago. My character was a werewolf, unbeknownst to the rest of the party. We had to assasinate a Noble one day, and it went horribly wrong. We were getting our butts chewed. The party was trapped in a stair well up to the noble's room, door locked, guards coming, when I changed! I was out of site when it happened; got knocked out before we entered the castle. I managed to retain enough control over 'self' to finish the assignment, so I charged up the stairs, through the guards, and through the player party, crushing someone's chest (I stepped on them) in the process. Just before that happened, one of the players saw me coming, ran back up the stairs to the locked door, yelling for everyone to get out of the way, banging insanely on the door. The PC's asked (yelled) what was the problem, and all Jim could say was "You don't want to know!" Ever since then Aroooo (4 of them ) has been my tag line.

Aroooo
(Werewolf? There wolf. There castle.)

[BNakagawa]

Originally posted by Tech
I disagree with BNakagawa's take on Detect Evil. Evil is definably objective. To say evil is not definable means good cannot be definable either. The attack on Sept 11 was definitely evil. Regardless, if your GM says it's you can buy it, go for it. Someone who can detect an evil presence is quite common, whether comic books, fantasy books or whatever else.

OK, define EVIL objectively. Keep in mind that in order to be objective, all parties observing the same thing with this definition all have to agree on the thing being evil or not.

I can tell you now that there are millions of people who do not believe that the 9/11 attack was an evil act.

Good luck.

[BNakagawa]

What you CAN do with detect Evil.

As long as you recognize that any definition of EVIL involves a certain agenda, then you can define Evil clearly enough to allow use of a detect.

If your detection of evil was based on a christian oriented power base, then you could define evil as presence or influence of a demonic or diabolic power. Or you could even define it as someone who willingly broke some number of commandments. Or someone who rejected God. Or whatever, as long as it was quantifiable by the GM.

In order for detect to work, the GM has to know beforehand whether or not the target would or would not register as whatever you're trying to detect. If your detect is subjectively defined, then there's always going to be disagreements over whether this borderline case would or would not work.

the last thing this game needs is for there to be in-game arguments over whether or not this or that is this or that.

$0.02

[Supreme]

Originally posted by Tech
I disagree with BNakagawa's take on Detect Evil. Evil is definably objective. To say evil is not definable means good cannot be definable either. The attack on Sept 11 was definitely evil. Regardless, if your GM says it's you can buy it, go for it. Someone who can detect an evil presence is quite common, whether comic books, fantasy books or whatever else.

I don't want to get into a 9/11 debate either, but...

The fact that there were people in other countries who danced in the streets at the news of the attacks shows that even that reprehensible act is not universally seen as evil. I am not suggesting that any of us revise our thinking about 9/11 or the meaning of evil. I'm only pointing out that it is subjective. Subjective doesn't mean wrong, it just means (among other things) "not objective."

And GamePhil raises and excellent point about a list of specific criteria which, while arrived at subjectively, could still be objectively "Detected" for. Of course you'd have to keep that list short and simple, otherwise it'd bog the game down.

[Richard Logue]

What about something so abstract in game, that its out of game?

For instance, can a character build a Detect Stun to be able to determine if his opponent is about to go down in the fight or not? Granted, he would probably also have to have Discriminatory and Analyze to be able to know the exact numbers involved.

But do you think Detect (Game Mechanic) is beyond the realm of what Detect can or is supposed to do? As an example, a computerized device at a super-prison, might be able to Detect Power (Discriminatory, Analyze) to determine exactly what a convict's powers are and how they work (in game mechanics terms) to be able to customize his cell to properly incarcerate him.

Richard

[Zaratustra]

Nothing is beyond the power of Detect! Nothing! Can you hear me? Mwaa haa haa haa haa!

But still, good luck explaining it to the GM. Detect Stun might be simply a good judgement of how much the enemy will take before falling (useful if you're a boxer) or, of course, magic. In case of problematic SFX, use Magic. A super-computer might analyze a character's powers via DNA analysis, but it'd flinch with magic users or aliens.

Now, the most useful Detect, which most characters have (or wish they had) is Detect Female Character Played By Male Player. Thank you, I'll be here all week.

[Vondy]

Originally posted by Richard Logue
Can Detect be use to sense abstract concepts? Is there a Detect Evil, for instance? Detect Health?

Richard

This is one of those GM approval type of things.

I have allowed Detect, Emotions in heroic level games, where mental defense makes it more difficult, and characters who know their dealing with an Empath can enter an Ego contest to submerge their emotions.

It works well so long as the Player and The Game Master know how its intended to work up front.