Need help with magic system

[projecktzero]

oh wise Hero Gamers,

I'm slowing working on a Fantasy Hero campaign. Actually, it's an old Rolemaster campaign that I managed to lose most of the info save a couple of maps and a brief history.

Anyway, I'm struggling with the magic system. I want a magic system that allows the mages to be like many of the fantasy novels I've read. What does that mean? Well, it's very dynamic in that they can usually cast what they want when they want yet it is exhausting to cast spells. None of this spell memorization DnD stuff. Here's some of the things I'm thinking about...

The exhausting part might be an End Reserve that recharges slowly or maybe 2X End Cost or more or both. All spells must cost End.

All spells must have at least two of the following limitations:
Concentration
Gestures
Incantations
Focus(Not material components but an item such as a staff or holy symbol)
Extra Time

I'm thinking of only two types of spells, magic and divine. The character must have "The gift", most likely a talent the PC must purchase. One talent for Magic and one for Divine. For 1 point, the PC can buy a Latent Talent at character creation..i.e. kind of a place holder if the player envisions the character to eventually to be able to cast spells.

"The Gift" in FH comes the closest to what I'm thinking of but without the multiple schools of magic and without keeping track of every spell the character can cast. Since there isn't multiple schools of magic, I was thinking of doubling or more the inital cost of the VPP as well as increasing the cost of increasing the VPP. i.e. For every 2 or 3 points put into the VPP, the pool is increased by 5 points. The GM will have to approve of any spell to make sure it fits in the campaign.

I will have Hero Designer on hand during play as well as FHG, so whipping up spells shouldn't chew up too much time. Also, the player and I can whip up a list of spells that the Wizard or Priest usually casts.

I'm planning a Heroic campaign.(75+75 disadvantages). It's been a real long time since I played Hero(Anyone remember 1st Ed Champions?), so I'm a little concerned about getting bogged down in the rules. I'm also concerned about using a VPP since so many seem to have issues with it. I hope to recruit a group of players that are more concerned about roleplaying than min/maxing.

Any ideas on this subject? Will this magic system be unbalancing? Time consuming? Difficult for the players to wrap their minds around?

[Killer Shrike]

oh wise Hero Gamers,
SNIP

Just go with a straight up fully Cosmic VPP, with "All Spells Must Take a minimum of -1/2 in Limitations from Incant, Gestures, Extra Time, Concentration", and a mandatory -1/2 Lim "Arcane Magic" or "Divine Magic" (if a character can use both, buy the Lim down to -1/4 "Magic"), and a campaign guideline that all Spells must cost END from a MAGIC END Reserve (even if only to be cast), and you are good.

If you want limits on Frequency of Use, require mandatory limitations on the REC of the END Reserve. This will curtail "Spell batterys", but still allow Magic Users to participate in multiple encounters per "day" so long as they can catch their breath.

You might also require Spells of a certain echelon of Power (perhaps any Spell within 10 AP of the max size of the VPP Pool for example, or a graduated scale with the most powerful Spells costing more LTE, and successively less LTE down from there) to cost Long Term END loss to the character as a -0 Side Effect. This has the interesting effect of allowing a caster to go thru Spells that are easy for them, but slow down their ability to cast their biggest Spells.

Requiring an access Talent is unnecessary IMO, because Cosmic VPP's are already expensive enough to discourage dabbling. However, if you want a character to determine if they have the capacity for Magic or not at character creation, I would suggest a single 5 point Talent, with no lesser costed "place holder"; 1 pt is to cheap for players looking to keep their options open, and 10 points is too steep for an actual spellcasting character that is also paying for a Cosmic VPP -- 5 is a happy medium; 5 pts could buy another CSL, Rapid Healing, another DC's worth of STR, a top-notch martial manuever and so on so min/maxers will think twice before taking it "just in case". At 1 pt most characters would tend to take something like that, or players will deliberate about it endlessly slowing character creation IME. At 5 pts most will either take it because they definitely want it or give it a miss outright.

[Old Man]

I would not suggest a VPP if you want to avoid min/maxers. For the most part, you're all set. The best way to avoid min/maxers is if you know your players very well and kind of drop the hint that you dispise powergaming and will make life a living hell if they make ultra characters. Seriously though, if you know them they should be ok regardless of the system you use for magic. If you're not sure about the players just have them buy spells as individual powers possibly with an END Reserve.

[Old Man]

VPPs are also irritating from a planning standpoint. When the mage can pick his special effect and power at will it makes it a bit harder to challenge the group with baddies that have specific vulnerabilities or situations that call for particular solutions. With a VPP the mage has access to literally every power in the book.

[Ndreare]

I have a basic magic system I use I will post here for you to look at. I posted it once but did not get a responce from the boards.


I will not bother you with the Game spesific information like cahmpain rules and stuff but this is the whole system.

this is the run down if you have questions let me know.

(I feel this system helps with games balance because although it allows easy improv of spells it also restricts caution and stop powers by making them harder to cast.)


Please tell me what you think

The Known Domains of Magic Gaining access to the gift of magic is not as easy as one might think it is more than learning a simple spell and moving on. A character must purchase a different skill for each of the nine magic domains. A character may choice to buy the skills up directly or to buy skill levels for them. However there are some rules on how this works. A character may buy skill levels for magic skills as they are simply purchased as “Skills”. A character may even purchase the familiarity level with his magic skills.

Alteration: Used for spells that change the shape or nature of physical objects and/or beings.
Awareness: Used to affect the mental and/or spiritual plane. Also used for all sensory powers except magic.
Creation: Used for spells that summon energy into creation such a fire balls and Illusions.
Dimensional: Used for spells that break physical laws of space or time.
Enchantment: Used to perform enchantment and focus related magical feats.
Essence: Used most “Adjustment” powers.
Necromancy: Used touch the negative plane.
Summoning: Used for summoning spells (does not confer control over the entity for that use Awareness.)
Warding: Used for defensive and protective spells.


What Domain Do I Use?

Often a question that comes up is “what domain do I use”. The easiest way to determine what domain a power fits in is consider what exactly the power does. For example to create a fire ball you are basically wanting to create energy so that would be the Domain of Creation. Other times special FX would run into more than one Domain. An example of this would be if a character wanted to create “Dimension Blades” this is both a Creation and Dimensional power as the character would both need to create the dimensional energy and shape/control it. The answer then is that the character has to use the lowest of his skills that are required. This is one of the reasons most skilled wizards by up there skill in more than just one Domain.


Basic Game Mechanics

All magic as a default has the following limitations. Some of these may be over come but that will be covered latter. (RSR and Side Effects may never be overcome unless the character buys the power out rite.)

All Powers Automatically have
-1/2 : Concentration 0-DCV
-3/4 : Extra Time; Full Phase, Delayed Phase
-1/2 : Gestures Throughout
-1/2 : Incantations Throughout
-1/2 : Requires Skill Roll.
-1/2 : Side Effects; (1D6 Normal Damage per every point skill is missed by. This Damage Explodes at -4DC)

Over Coming the Limitations of Magic

The limitations are actually not so much limitations as obstacles. A character who wants to overcome the limitations of magic such as casting with out gestures or casting in less time may do so by pushing their skill. For every -1/4 the character wants to ignore/overcome the character suffers a -1 to his/her skill roll.

Example 1: Nero wants to Cast a Fire ball but because he wants it to go off before the knight attacks him he is going to push off the limitation of “Extra Time; Full Phase, Delayed this is a 3/4 However it also means the gestures and incantations no longer qualify for the throughout value so this is an additional -2/4 worth of limitations so to instant cast his spell he will have to roll at -5 (WOW). This is in addition to other limitations such as Active Points.


Counter Spells & Magic

Often in books and games one character begins casting a spell and an opponent hopes to interrupt him or shield him from the mystic flows he is attempting to wield. In game this is resolved as a contest of skills between the characters. In a contest of magic skills the caster uses the base Domain for the spell he desires to cast, the disruptor uses either his “Source Domain” or the Same Domain as the target spell disruptors choice. The disruptor is simply casting a “Dispel or Suppress” game mechanic depending on what effect he wants to create. A character who is being affected by a suppress may use ½ of whichever is higher of his “Source” or Warding skill as power defense vs. magic assaults in addition to any power defense he purchases in the normal manner. (Unless the character puts the variable effect advantages on his dispel/suppress magic he will have to know the exact spell being cast via a KS Magic roll at -4 or a KS Type Magic roll at -0.)


Access To The Schools of Magic

Not just anyone can use magic. Only someone born with the “Gift” may actually channel the forces of magic. Unfortunately not all people are born with the gift at its full power. The following is a summery of the different levels of “The Gift”.

10 : The Lesser Gifted
15 : The Greater Gift
20 : The True Gift

Definition of the different levels of “The Gift”.
The Lesser Gift: An average weaver can cast spells from up to four “Domains” but they must all fit into a narrow category of special affect such as Air, Earth, Fire, Water or Animal Magic. Many Warlocks and Shamans fall in this category.
The Greater Gift: A typical magic user these people have the Gift at such a level that they may cast from all but two of the known “Domains”. They must select at the time of creation which Domain they are unable to cast from. (Remember to select two Domains that cannot be learned.) Most “Mages”, Necromancers, Alchemist, Technomancers ext… fall in this category.
The True Gift: A true Arcane Lord in the traditional sense these people have the Gift at such a level that they may cast from all of the known “Domains” with full power. There are no restrictions as to which Domains this character may study and/or master.


Arcane Talents

Sometimes in addition to just being able to weave and use magic a person will be born with other more limited gifts such as a predisposition to one Domain or an Elemental inclination. These characteristics are always born into the character and never acquired later although it is not unheard of for a character to live out his life and die never having known of his magical gifts. The following are some samples of the known and most common of magical talents.


Arcane Dedication: This character has devoted so much of his time and energy into his Arcane Gifts he has come to truly master them. The character with this “Talent” is actually just purchasing skill levels & as such follows all the rules for skill levels.(Note: The 5 point or higher related groupings include KS and PS that are magic related.) Cost: Varies.
Elementalist: These characters are inherently inclined to a certain FX over another. Determine what fx they are inclined to the character is considered to have +3 to all his magic skills when working in that FX unfortunately the character is considered to be at -3 for all other spells and may not cast spells considered to be of opposite nature. Cost: 10 (Note may only be selected by characters with the 20 or 25 point Gifted levels.)
Focused Study: Some characters are so good at casting their spells that they do not have to do the simple things most mages consider necessary. An example of this would be a character who gas spent months mastering his talents so he may cast without his hands or even without using power words. This character may ignore a single -1/4 worth of penalty to casting for each level purchased. A character purchasing this talent must name it in such a way as to clearly identify which limitations he is overcoming. Cost: 3 the cost of this talent is based on buying limited 5-point skill levels.
Inherit Power: Some characters seem to have unexplained levels of power that exceed what should be their limits. These characters were born with the raw talent of magic well above the limits of their mind & will. For every level of this talent purchased the character may increase his AP limit by 5 AP. Cost: 2
Mana-Blank: This character is completely immune to direct affect magic. They were born without any man at all and cannot be aided or attacked directly from magic. Although indirect effects still can have affects on the character such as a created wall of stone would still be seen as a stone wall and would still need climbed or overcome. Often times characters with this talent do not relies that indirect magic such as hurled objects can affect them until it is to late do not let players assume that their characters are experts on magic just because they know the rules. Cost: 50
Trigger Master: This character has mastered the principle behind triggered powers like Enchantment and Spell Holding. This character may double the number of triggers active at any given time for every level or this talent purchased. Cost: 10/LVL. (Some GM’s may wish to limit this talent to one or two levels as it can be so easily abused.)
* Others: Since no man can think of everything we must consider there are talents we have not covered. Cost: Unknown


The Strength of Magic

A caster with access to a domain of spells may try to weave anything he desires that fits within his skills. However some things are harder to do than others. To represent this we use the standard rule from 5th ED of -1 to your skill roll for every 10 AP of power however for both the flavor of the game world and for game balance certain elements of a powers construction may increase these penalties. The two biggest of these are that for each of the following in a power construct the skill penalties are increased by a multiplier of +½, Each Special Power, Each Caution Power, & Each Healing Element. (Such as the basic healing power, & can re-grow limbs.) Other Power Construction Elements Carry an even heavier multiplier penalty of +1 they are Stop Powers, & Sensory Powers. In All cases the multiplier penalties for a spell construct may not exceed +4 even if there are dozens of stop and caution elements in the power.

A character may try any spell he knows however there are certain restrictions on the game mechanics to help maintain balance and represent the different “Strengths” of different weavers. First of these is “Minimum Base Point” restrictions, all powers have a minimum Base Point level of 10 Character Points. This means that if a character wants to create a “Wings of The Raven” spell with flight he must have a minimum of 5” in raw flight +/- adders before any advantages or limitations are applied. Second is “Maximum Base Points” the maximum Base Points in a power +/- adders before applying advantages or limitations is equal to the lower of the characters INT or EGO attribute times 2.5. Third, “Active Points” there is no hard AP limit for casting a spell. However the maximum a character may add to his Base Magic skill by any known means is equal to a bonus of his highest complimentary skill. So a character with a base skill of -18 & Circle Casting of -13 can not have an effective skill before penalties of higher than -31.


What if You Want To Cast A Spell Beyond Your Skill?

Some times a character will want to cast a spell that is so powerful that his skill roll would drop to unreasonable levels. Well the good news is there are ways to fix that. The character wishing to cast spells that are to powerful to be casually slung may choose one or more of the following options each of which will make the casting easier. Although there is still no guarantee that the spell will go off as desired it certainly help to use these tools.
Extra Time: By using a PS: Ritual Caster skill a character may add +1 to his skill for every additional step down the time table beyond the base time of spell. This does not usually require a roll unless the character is distracted or otherwise disturbed. A spell cast using PS: Ritual Caster always requires gestures and incantations throughout.
Extra End: AKA pushing your limits, for every +1 END multiplier the character may add +1 to his effective skill. This has the side effect of any failure while a character is pushing also has its Backfire DC pushed by the same multiplier as the END was pushed by. (This follows the normal rules for pushing.)
Complimentary Skills: There are two different Power Skills that can be helpful to a spell caster they are Symbol/Rune Casting and Soul Casting, although not actually arcane skills these magic related skills can help a caster in very significant ways but each has its own limits. The limits of the two skills are as follows. Symbol/Rune Casting requires the character create physical marks focusing the magic involved. The minimum size of these marks are 1” square per active point in the spell cast, plus the character still has to roll his Symbol/Rune Casting skill in addition to making his normal roll to cast the spell. Soul Casting, this vile magic requires the character to spend 2 body for every 10 active points or portion their of in the spell. This magic drain on life cannot be restored in any magical or known way other than normal healing time. If the character does not want to use his own life energy he may choose to use the life energy of another by doing body damage to them in a ritual casting while they are prone with a contested Skill vs. Ego roll.
Casting Circles: Casting circles are handled quite easily. The character leading the circle gets a +2 to his skill & strength for every doubling of casters with all the relevant skills. A character with only four domains in a circle can only add to the skill of others in those same skills. The only real requirement is that all caster involved must be with in 1” of another caster in the circle and no character may have more assistants in a circle than his skill in Circle Casting.
Casting Aids: Such as a Wizards Staff or Crystal. (These are bought as Arcane Devotion with Limitations such as Focus, Charges and Extra Time.) All foci must be designed in such a way as to mentally represent the desired spell. In example a spell of fireballs could not use a glass of water but instead would need something like coal, ruby dust and/or maybe salt peter.
Alchemy Aids: Such as a potion or scroll, these devices make it easier to use spells but each one typically only has one power. The benefit of this method is that it allows the character to make his magic roll in the safety of his laboratory. Alchemy Items count towards the standard Triggered powers limits. Items with charges count as one trigger slot for every 8 charges stored/created in the item or for every 5 minutes worth of continuous. (This system uses the 5th edition recommended Skill/5 limit for maximum number of triggered spells prepared.)
Technomancy Constructs: A Technomancy Construct is fashioned in a laboratory were the character is safe and later provides the caster with the ability to use a predefined spell. The benefit of a Technomancy item is the character is allowed to use his Alchemy/Technomancy skill to activate the spell even when it is from a different Domain. (Example Darith has a Technomancy of -19 and a Fire Pistol, his Creation Skill is only -8 normally to use the Fire Bolt spell (5D6 EB) stored in the pistol he would have to roll vs. his Creation skill as fire ball is magically created energy however since he built it into a Technomancy item he may use his Enchantment skill of -19. Technomancy items count towards the characters triggered powers limits even though they technically do not use the triggered power advantage the way alchemy items do.
True Enchanted Items: These are objects bought in the normal method of foci purchasing in the Hero system. Enchanted items built with the “Technomancy” fx do not count towards the characters triggered power limits. Although you do have to pay full points for them.

In all cases the character still rolls on the Domain skill that the spell would come from when creating/using the item (Exception is Technomancy in which case the character only rolls in the base domain at object creation). He simply gains benefits from having the object focus his spell. It is not uncommon for an Enchanter/Alchemist/Technomancer to have a very high Enchantment skill and very low skill (-11 to -15) with the other Domains making it so that days or even weeks can be spent creating magic items. The character also need to have the appropriate PS skill for crafting whatever object he hopes to focus his powers through such as brewing, Armor Craft or Literacy. A rarely chosen exception is to have someone else craft the object in your presence as you cast the magic.


Extraordinary Skill

Characters with Extraordinary Skill may use their magic skills at passive levels. This is done by treating their skill as if were only half its full level. The advantage is it represents a mages passive ability to resist the spells of other wizards or sense magic casually. A Character never suffers spell back fire from passive skill he either innately resists/senses or casually creates or he does not. This is the effortless level of power a normal person uses breathing.


Special Exceptions to General Rules

Always Using The Lowest Skill
Magical Defenses: A character may use either Essence or Warding his choice for determining inherent PowDef.
Magic Perception: A character may use either Awareness or Essence his choice for magic perception.
Necromancy: A character may use his skill in necromancy for the following powers that would fall in other Domains Animate Dead, Create Zombie, Control Dead, Repel Undead & Sense Necromantic Energy.
Adjustment Powers that affect the Magic Skills or the “Gift” Talents Directly are automatically at X4 to skill penalty.

Holy Ground & Other Places of Magic

Mana Wells: Wells are treated as environmental conditions that provide bonuses to magic for either all magic skills or for limited magic skills based on the type. Common types of Mana wells are Elemental, Necromancy, Healing, Protection ext…

Dark Magic Zones: These areas are treated as environmental penalties to limited magic or all magic similar to Mana Wells. It is possible to have the two different types over lapping such as Holy Ground that will have bonuses to all healing/divine fx spells and negatives to all necromantic spells.

Wild magic zones are areas of such increased magical energy that channeling is at -8 to skill and all successes are critical with double power while all failures are critical with double the normal amount of backfire.


Perceived Power Levels

Something that should be addressed is how much power do I need to represent certain power levels. So I give this chart of perceived power levels from the perception of the Adinari Guild of Magic.
Apprentice Skill of -8 through -15
Wizard Skill of -16 through -20
Master Wizard Skill of -21 through -25
Arch Wizard Skill of -26 or higher
Circle of Nine Seat Holder Skill of -20 in 6 Domains & -30 in Domain of Holding



END NOTES: In games that use ER. Add (AP of ALL Extra Talents/5) + (Highest Magic Skill/2) + (Total Levels of all Magic Skills/10). So a character with INT 10, + True Gift (No other Talents) + 3 points in eight magic skills for an 11 + 13 points in Creation for a 16 would have 0+8.8+8=16.8 added to their ER.

[Killer Shrike]

Heres a spin on the basic concept:

The Adept

Adepts are able to essentially bend reality to suit their whim. Masters of an Arcane Language which allows them to describe and order reality, preternaturally powerful beings able to warp events to their choosing, fonts for mighty extra-planar entities, or products of some other spectacularly flexible model of Magic Use, Adepts essentially have an open tap on pure magical power.

Adept Magic operates with Frequency Controls via mandatory END costs and Long Term Endurance costs. It also suffers from Opportunity Cost Control via the steep cost of the mandatory Variable Power Pool. It also suffers from a form of Access Control via a mandatory Access Talent. Logically this form of Magic should also function with some form of Applicablity Control wherein there are clearly defined restrictions on what "Arcane" and "Divine" Magic can and can't do (with some degree of exclusivity), as determined by the GM as campaign guidelines. In some settings a GM might also impose a form of Acquisition Control on this Magic System via a set list of pregenerated Spells available.

EXAMPLE: Projectzero the GM imposes a form of Acquisition Control to this Magic System by stating that only Spells from the Fantasy HERO Grimoire or otherwise approved by him prior to gameplay may be used by Adepts, but must add or remove all modifiers necessary to comply with the mandatory restrictions of this Magic System.

Adept Magic is VPP Based, using a Partially Cosmic VPP.

To practice Magic of this sort a character must have a Custom Talent called "Magical Adept" that costs 5 Points and may only be taken at Character Creation.

Adepts have Variable Power Pools with the 0 Phase Change and No Skill Roll Required Advantages. This VPP may be of any size, limited only by how many Character Points the character choses to spend upon it.

There are some Restrictions on This VPP:
<ol>
<li>The VPP must take Arcane Magic Only (-1/2) or Divine Magic Only (-1/2). A GM might allow a character to take Magic Only (-1/4) instead if that character can cast both Arcane and Divine Spells and meets any other requirement necessary for "Divine" Magic in a campaign (such as a patron diety, being in good standing with a code of conduct or religion, and similar), but this only serves a purpose if the GM has defined certain things that Arcane Magic and Divine Magic respectively can and cannot do.
<li>All Spells must take a minimum of -1 in Limitations from Extra Time, Concentration, Incantation, Concentration, Limited Range, and Increased Endurance. (Variable Limitation (-1 in Limitations; -1/2))
<li> All Divine Spells must take "Only While Serving [Patron]" (-1/2).
<li> All Arcane Spells must take Gestures (Requires Both Hands"; -1/2) or Increased Endurance (x2 END; -1/2)
<li> All Spells must cost END to Activate at a minimum
<li> Adept Spells may not have any other Limitation; as they are cast via a Cosmic Power Pool, any Limitation other than the mandatory ones given above are easily circumvented.
</ol>

Additionally, an Adept takes Long Term Endurance (LTE) when casting Spells with Active Points that are near the upper limit of their VPP Pool for no additional Limitation or Disadvantage as indicated by the following chart:
<table border=1><tr><td>Spell Uses 91%-100% of VPP Pool</td><td>5 LTE when cast</td></tr><tr><td>Spell Uses 81%-90% of VPP Pool</td><td>4 LTE when cast</td></tr><tr><td>Spell Uses 71%-80% of VPP Pool</td><td>3 LTE when cast</td></tr><tr><td>Spell Uses 61%-70% of VPP Pool</td><td>2 LTE when cast</td></tr><tr><td>Spell Uses 51%-60% of VPP Pool</td><td>1 LTE when cast</td></tr></table>

Spells may be of any sort with any intended effect not otherwise proscribed by a GM, but the GM as always has final approval of all Spells.

It should be noted that Adepts can maintain Spells that have been cast by making them Costs END Only to Activate and Uncontroled, or by keeping a Constant Spell "active" in their VPP to maintaining it (with the commensurate impact on the available Real Cost for other Spells in the VPP). In the case of Costs END Only to Activate Uncontrolled Spells, some reasonable termination must be defined as normal for such Power Constructs.

Adepts may have an END Reserve to power their Spells with and if they have one all Spells must draw their END from this Reserve. Further the GM might decide to put limitations upon the REC of the END Reserve as a campaign guideline to limit the ability of Adepts to casts Spells repititiously.

Adept players may want to keep a running log of Spells they've used successfully in the past as this can simplify the process of switching Spells around in their VPP.

[Killer Shrike]

With a VPP the mage has access to literally every power in the book.

Unless the VPP Control Cost has Limitations to prevent this, or the GM has made broad campaign level dictums about what Magic can and can't do, or combinations of both.

[Old Man]

That's the point. You must limit the hell out of the VPP or else the mage becomes Annoying Multitool Man:

The ice dragon takes triple damage from fire? Fireball!
The fire giant takes triple damage from ice? Cone of cold!
Attacked by a swarm of insects? Area effect RKA!
Attacked by a heavily armored bad guy? Double AP RKA! Or AVLD.
Need to question a bad guy? Telepathy!
Need to catch the bad guy in order to question him? Entangle!
Need to cross the chasm to escape the oncoming horde? Flight, usable by others, area effect!
How about a STR Aid for the warrior, or a DEX aid for the thief?
Why not just turn the whole party invisible and tell the thief to stay home?
Tell the cleric to stay home too, the mage has plenty of healing.
Need to find something? N-Ray vision!
Need to lose something? Major transform!

And so on.

[Killer Shrike]

That's the point. You must limit the hell out of the VPP or else the mage becomes Annoying Multitool Man:

The ice dragon takes triple damage from fire? Fireball!
The fire giant takes triple damage from ice? Cone of cold!
Attacked by a swarm of insects? Area effect RKA!
Attacked by a heavily armored bad guy? Double AP RKA! Or AVLD.
Need to question a bad guy? Telepathy!
Need to catch the bad guy in order to question him? Entangle!
Need to cross the chasm to escape the oncoming horde? Flight, usable by others, area effect!
How about a STR Aid for the warrior, or a DEX aid for the thief?
Why not just turn the whole party invisible and tell the thief to stay home?
Tell the cleric to stay home too, the mage has plenty of healing.
Need to find something? N-Ray vision!
Need to lose something? Major transform!

And so on.

And paid for the privelege of this flexibility Cosmic is a tidy +2 Advantage afterall.

Saying VPPs are bad because "X can happen" is like saying a Matchbook is bad because matches can cause brushfires that consume huge tracts of land. It concentrates on a worst case scenario and removes the assumption of intelligent application. Do brushfires caused by irresponsible use of matches occure? Yes. Does it mean that matches cant be useful when used reasonably and intelligently? No.

Used with caution the VPP is a powerful and useful game mechanic, particularly for modeling Magic Users.

[Killer Shrike]

Here you go, a typed up verbose version:

http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyH...Packages.shtml

<iframe src="http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/GreyHEROContent/PackageDeals/adeptPackages.shtml" height=500 width="100%"></iframe><ilayer src="http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/GreyHEROContent/PackageDeals/adeptPackages.shtml" height=500 width="100%"></ilayer>

[projecktzero]

Thanks to all who replied. Lots of ideas to think about. I kind of like the idea of LTE. What are your experiences with it? Is it a book keeping nightmare?

[Killer Shrike]

Thanks to all who replied. Lots of ideas to think about. I kind of like the idea of LTE. What are your experiences with it? Is it a book keeping nightmare?

When over used it can be. It mostly depends on the GM to be clear about how much time has passed in-game to be used correctly.

It can really discourage big Spell slinging when used in moderation however and is a great alternative to having to fool around with Side Effect Drains and suchlike.