Character balancing option

[i3ullseye]

Ok, this started in the Fantasy hero threads about the problem with power levels of attacks versus defenses. If you cap active point levels, or use the rule of X, you tend to have a lot of players with the max attack possible, and the max defense possible... and it homogenizes things a bit too much. So here is one solution I use and it works rather well for me...

I normally set up my games with a preconcived list of roles to fill. For a supers game this might be healer, Blaster, Brick, Martial Artist, Etc..... and then I ensure that each person tries to pick a unique one to prevent character cross over. For fantasy this might be Clearic, Fighter, Ranger, etc.....

Now I know the game does not really enforce classes, and I am not suggesting any such thing. But general roles or professions being adhered to prevents the clone syndrome that can exist in a game with nothing to keep it in check. Isolate 6 players and let them create characters for a 300 points supers game, and you will have at least 4 who can do 12d6 damage, have regeneration, and flight.

Now, to further assist this I usually set point distribution limits based on archetype. Depending on the genre, and the spwecific campaign, this can vary greatly, but the general guideline holds true. here is an example of what i am talking about....

This is for a Campaign I intend to run called the Society...

[i3ullseye]

In the Society, characters are designed by concept and theme more than by points and rules. There are a few basic origins, and some roles, which the group must strive to cover to ensure an effective and balanced fighting force. There can be some overlap in roles, but the character concepts are unique within the group, there can only be one of each.

Each concept and role comes with certain advantages and limitations, but these are design related and not often directly related to points. None will have more or less character points than the other, but the way the points are used can be a bit more flexible.

The basics of character design are thus:

75 base points, which MUST be spent on Characteristics.
75 points in disadvantages, with no more than 25 from any one type.
The 75 earned from disadvantages MUST be spent outside Characteristics, but can not be spent on equipment or items.
Each character has a basic 50 point equipment fund, that is a rotating pool that can be changed out in various ways.
All characters have Normal Characteristic Maxima by default.
No character may take an innate power unless it is justified by their Concept.

These items are banned or extremely restricted in the campaign.

Perks- access, Computer Link (must be bought with equipment fund), Favor, Follower, Fringe benefit (weapon permits can be bought with equipment fund, others are class dependant), Money (nothing above Well Off), Vehicles and Bases.

Talents- Danger Sense (only available to certain concepts), Eidetic Memory (only certain concepts), Environmental Movement (also concept dependant), Lightning Reflexes, Universal Translator.

Powers- All powers will be evaluated on a case by case basis. Each must fit with the concept, and you must strive to fulfill at least one roll. Many will have stringent prerequisites. But the following powers will almost never be present- Faster than Light Travel, Clair Sentience, Desolidification, Duplication, Endurance Reserve (very limited), Extra Dimensional Movement, Find Weakness (very limited), Mental Illusions (again very limited), Mind Scan, Multiform, Shape Shift, Stretching, Summon, Transform.

Many may be obtainable in the future, but characters will rarely start with any of these unless they are in a very limited form.

Power Frameworks are also limited by Concept. And equipment will be purchased as the simplest pre-existant piece in the book. Custom building items will be limted by concepts.

The Concepts:

Mystic Martial Artist: This character is the master of a certain form of martial art, which usually grants powers and abilities beyond the abilities of normal mortal men. Chi based abilities are very common. This is one of the few concepts with the possibility of an endurance reserve. Martial Arts and related skills will be excessive to be able to attain powers and chi.

Magical: This character can either be a magical construct, a hero empowered by magic, or a classic spellcaster (which would be the most common). The skill requirements are steep for magic, but this is one of the few classes to be able to use a multipower pool. Their equipment pool can be used to purchase magical items only, and in some instances items yielding spells may be purchased as well.

Mutant: A mutant has his powers within. All mutants must choose 1 or 2 powers, or build their powers within an Elemental Control framework. They may sacrifice half their Equipment Pool to remove their Normal Characteristic Maxima, and can freely spend their 75 base points on powers and skills… though they MUST still spend their secondary 75 on powers, and may NOT use them on Characteristics.

Altered/Superior Human: Through Radioactive bite or sheer physical training, this character can perform well beyond the limits of normal man. They may spend their secondary points on Characteristics, but must still spend their base 75 on Characteristics. They MUST sacrifice half their Equipment Fund and do not have Normal Characteristic Maxima.

Technology: Be it massive weapons, or a suit of powered armor, this hero lives and dies by his gear. This is one of the only characters who can design custom gear, but the skill requirements to be able to do so are steep. This character is another who may have an endurance reserve, and possibly a multipower. They can NOT have innate powers.

Alien: Whether from another dimension, or another world, this character is a stranger in a strange land. They may lose half their Equipment Fund to lose their Normal Charactersitic Maxima, but are not required to. There are often some very obvious physical characteristics with these characters. They MUST take one sucesptability.

Psychic: These characters are normal people with unnaturally potent minds. Their powers are internal in origin, but must be within an Elemental Control. They can use their Equipment Fund to purchase psychically powered/ego items only.

Super Sleuth: This character can not buy powers. All the basic limitations are in place on this character. The Equipment Fund is as normal and all is per the standard rules. BUT this character can choose freely from ANY talents and can freely spend his base points outside of Characteristics.

Roles!

These are the roles the heroes must try to fill. There may indeed be some overlap of abilities, but each character must strive to fulfill one particular role. And no other character will be near as competent as the character in this particular area. Many skills and abilities fall within these roles, but each is to be taken on a case by case basis, and will depend heavily on the Concept. A magical healer is much different from a mutant healer, but both fill the healer role.

Healer: The name says it all. When damage is done, this character removes it.

Tank: This is the close in, brute strength fighter. They should have the highest strength in the group.

Blaster: Ranged damage is this characters specialty, be it machine guns or mystic blasts.

Taxi: This character has movement powers to get the group where they need to be.

Shield: This character will have powers or abilities that can protect other members of the group.

Covert Ops: Disguise, stealth or even full invisibility, this is the groups sneaky specialist.

Gear Head: If it can be broken, this character can fix it.

Geek: this is the general braniac of the group.

Field General: This character will have leadership, and skills and abilities to enhance the groups cooperation and teamwork.

Speedster: This is the fast member of the group. For when it has to be done 5 minutes ago.

Trickster: This is a jack of all trades, with many non standard abilities and some unique tricks up their sleeve.

Spokesman: This is the negotiator and public face for the group, for the rare times they want or need a public face.

Criminologist: This character knows the law like the back of their hand, and can find the trace hair follicle at the scene of the crime to bust the perp.

Communications: This hero has abilities or items to enhance the groups communications capabilities.

[i3ullseye]

Opinions greatly appreciated. So what does everyone think of this idea? It has worked great for Fantasy also, along with starting the players down 50 points, and then letting them find teachers for the first month or so and spend 10 of them after each session to develop their skilsl before fully adventuring off. Helps buils great character history and is another nice tool I use to ensure balance and versatility.

Don't want any necromancers? then the players aren't likely to find someone willing to teach it.

[Fur Face]

Hi i3ullseye,

Your system seems well thought out, and by keeping things consistent it would make everything easier to run as a GM. The only observation I have is that it kind of sounds like "D&D prestige classes for champions". Players may either enjoy it or hate it, since many seem to enjoy Hero games because they wouldn't feel pigeonholed.

Just an observation.


Jim

[mayapuppies]

Personally, I love this concept. I've had the same problem in HERO game in the past and has always been a concern with the non-superheroic games.

If you don't mind me asking; what genre is this Society Game taking place in?

[caris]

Not to my tastes. It gets a little too specific. If I wanted to be playing a class based system their are plenty out there. Personally, I prefer to keep it a little more general. I usually just make it be a trade off between a few different things. Like you can't max out OCV and Damage, or Defenses and DCV. I've never really as a player or a GM encountered the ton of clones syndrome.

[Hugh Neilson]

I've never really as a player or a GM encountered the ton of clones syndrome.

Neither have I, and I do look at similar issues to yours. As well, I'll look at versatility (characters with only one attack may be able to have better OCV/DC combinations than those with lots of choices) and the tradeoff (more powerful offensively, less powerful defensively, or vice versa). No formulas, though - I just eyeball them.

To me, if you end up with a ton of clones, you nmeed to look at the game itself. Does your game favour any type of character? For example, if you tend to use low OCV characters who do tons of damage, and rarely have a character who can target a hex or a mind, DEX/DCV becomes much mnore valuable.

Are you giving them too many points? If they can max out on stats, defenses and offense, I would suggest either the limits need to be raised (for NPC's and PC's) or that the points available need to be curtailed. It should not be possible to be at campaign max in virtually everything. If it is, of course you get clones - the points have nowhere else to go.

[Metaphysician]

Personally, I don't see the problem with having most of your team have a 12 DC attack and comparable defenses, so long as they are done in different ways.

For instance, you could have a brick, a martial artist, a flying energy blaster, and a high tech knight. All have a 12 DC attack, but all produce it in different ways.

[i3ullseye]

Well, the reason i do this is they are more strong suggestion than strict guideline. If 2 people REALLY want to be detective types, i would allow it, but just try to ensure as little overlap as possible.

now admittedly, in a straight supers campaign this is not as much of an issue. The reason i did this was I was going to work with a basic equipment pool system, but not all characters woudl benefit as much from it. If you have natural armor and shoot beams from your eyes, i wasn't really looking forward to them also taking an M60 with them everywhere they went.

The reason I do this is because I often ahve new players who might not realize that spending to much on Characteristics, or too much on powers, can actually gimp a character pretty bad. One dimentional characters, or every character with the same attack and defense rating doesn't hurt the game I run, but it can certainly limit the fun of the character involved if they do not feel unique or special.

And the OTHER reason i did this, and the reason the game never got started, was that one individual decried the same 'but it is HERO, I should be able to do what I want" that many here seem to agree with. At first it was just him, then he talked his best friend into backing out (who was very happy with a mystic martial artist stealth guy). Seems this lone individual wanted to be a Superior human, with high regeneration, tons of detective and inventing skills, and really good martial arts to go with his claws. He also wanted ot go invisible, so that the multipower Bow he made with his inventing and gadgeteering could be used form a position of stealth.

So basically, he wanted it all. I asked the other players what they thought, and to a man every one thought that they woudl not have fun if one gy in the group did everything and left no one else a specific role, except his good friend who could stay invisible and heal him of course. My view is this... Hawkeye uses a Bow, but Spiderman and the Hulk do not. Why? BECAUSE THEY DON'T FRIGGEN NEED ONE. But i still had some players that 'wanted it all', and this curtailed it right at creation to avoid future problems.

But all in all, it is MUCH better for heroic level games (as this was) even if the individuals might actually have super powers. This campaign will be very skill and task oriented, and not straight ahead combat, so I want to cover as many bases with a well developd team to ensure its success.

Noo, I did NOT just arbitrarily do this, I implemented it into the core of the campaign itself logicaly. Here is the document of the basic Campaign background........ and WHY the characters needed to adhere to these creation guidelines. there might eb a super invisible regen claw, martial art Bow guy out there... but this grop would not be interested in him.

[i3ullseye]

The Society

Early in the 19th century, France was home to Eugene Vidocq. A man seemingly always falling to bad luck, his was a life of crime and flight. Countless times he was apprehended, and each time he escaped. History would have long forgotten such a man, friend and ally to the seedy underside of early renaissance France, but his tale takes a unique turn. One that would revolutionize crime and criminology as we know it.

Tiring of eternal flight, Vidocq offered his services to the police forces of Paris. Once he won the position, he became the most prolific spy and undercover agent the world has yet seen. Using the technique of crime to stop the criminals themselves, his successes were unparalleled. Eventually he formed a group of investigators comprised entirely of criminals turned Gendarme. Through disguise and cunning, and the most brilliant mind of their leader, they accomplished feats entire regiments could not duplicate.

Not only did his force revolutionize crime information gathering, the order spurred many to emulate the philanthropic and noble acts performed by Vidocq. Fighting fire with fire in the war on crime……

Today:

A man, calling himself only Vidocq in honor of the famed sleuth, has formed a new order, known only as the Society… to those who know the name at all. Carrying on the tradition of the historical Vidocq, he has hand chosen his agents from those with less than perfect pasts. Their skill fused into a team of crime fighters in times of dire need.

Though each may have a tragic or diabolical past, all have a common goal. To work as a unified front and bring all their talents to bear to right the wrongs of the world. From many nations and origins they come. They are not the heroes of national recognition. The ravages of volcanoes and rubble of buildings collapsed are not their watch. They hide within the dark underbelly of cities, and help the common man from the crime that dwells on their very doorstep every day.

The media and press are more enemy than ally to Vidocq and his team. And with an air of disdain they ‘Let the boy scouts play to the news crews’ while they hit crime where it lives and thrives.

The World:

In the World of EarthΩ (Earth Omega) things are much like the mundane world. The maps are the same, and the politics a mirror image. But what might be considered flights of fantasy in our present world, in EarthΩ it just might be fact. Aliens and Magic, Super Heroes and Vampires…. All have some basis in truth.

There are heroes with the power to lift trains and fly between worlds. There are creatures of unspeakable horror and intelligent humanoid beings that live under the sea. None of these are as prevalent as one sees in comic books, but a city with a group of super powered beings numbering 6 or more is not unheard of.

But in the back alleys and cess pits of the inner city, crime is more rampant than one may think. And the perpetrators are far from mundane in many instances. It is this arena where the Society plies its trade. The real war in EarthΩ is not one resembling Superman battling Braniac (though this is not impossible), but Daredevil and Deadpool battling Bullseye, or the Punisher and Iron Fist stalking the Kingpins agents, led by Chameleon is an almost daily affair.

So let the high flying heroes with their square chins and squeaky clean images fight the threat to the city from beyond the stars… in EarthΩ the vigilant few willing to go beyond the limits of the law to stop the rapists and assassins from making their next hit are the real champions of the day.

It is a dark world, and sometimes only the darkest of warriors can restore the light.