Another weird duplicaton question! Yay!

[Fenixcrest]

How would you guys do a duplicate that must recombine with its creator if the creator is knocked out, the effect being that the duplicate blinks out of existence?

The way I currently have it set up is to give the duplicate Desolid and Accidental Change: Must recombine with original at all costs if original is knocked out.

I'm sure there's a simpler way/more cost-effective way to build it, though... This is without ranged recombine- the range was just too short in its normal state. What if the duplicate is on the other end of the city when the original is knocked out? She'd have to travel, anyway.

What do you guys think, Herodom assembled?

[GamePhil]

This one will require GM leniency:

Take a Side Effect on the Duplication that goes off whenever the main character is knocked out. The Side Effect is Dispel: Duplication, Standard Effect (1 point per point of Duplication). This is:

Severe (-1), Occurs whenever character does some specific act (1/4 less), Predefined amount of damage (1/4 less), Only affects the recipient of the benefits of the Power (that is, the Duplicate) (1/4 less), for a -1/4 Limitation.

This seems fairly reasonable: there might be times when it is beneficial, but most of the time it is a Limitation.

[DocMan]

Sounds like a limitation on the duplication. Something on the order of "Duplicate can only exist when host is concous". I'm thinking a -1/2 or -3/4. Of course, this wouldn't be a recombine, the dups would just cease to be. I'm guessing that the SFX of the duplication is that the dups are psychic projections.

Doc

[GamePhil]

Sounds like a limitation on the duplication. Something on the order of "Duplicate can only exist when host is concous". I'm thinking a -1/2 or -3/4. Of course, this wouldn't be a recombine, the dups would just cease to be. I'm guessing that the SFX of the duplication is that the dups are psychic projections.

I fear that, recombine or not, I'd personally have to insist that you get the damage applied to the primary character when the Duplication ends.

[Fenixcrest]

Yes, the duplication is a Psychic projection. Basically a solid telikinetic free-roaming entity with its own conciousness and the powers of its creator. This is an NPC, by the way... I just like to keep things rules-kosher whenever I can.

I thought about the dispel thing, since that works on Summons, but then there's that little blurb about duplications: If a duplicate dies, it's gone forever. Therefore, if a duplicate is dispelled, is it dead? Or is it just "recombined" without other recombining effects?

[GamePhil]

I thought about the dispel thing, since that works on Summons, but then there's that little blurb about duplications: If a duplicate dies, it's gone forever. Therefore, if a duplicate is dispelled, is it dead? Or is it just "recombined" without other recombining effects?

That one would be up to you. I'd call it recombined *with* the recombining effects (the reduced DCV doesn't matter, you're unconscious, and the damage should apply normally). That, of course, is also up to you.

As another example, I certainly wouldn't count the Astral Form as having been killed if someone uses a Dispel: Magic Power on it.

But I'll ask you this: if the Dispel counts as killing the Duplicate, why wouldn't any other Limitation you applied to it?

[Fenixcrest]

That one would be up to you. I'd call it recombined *with* the recombining effects (the reduced DCV doesn't matter, you're unconscious, and the damage should apply normally). That, of course, is also up to you.

As another example, I certainly wouldn't count the Astral Form as having been killed if someone uses a Dispel: Magic Power on it.

But I'll ask you this: if the Dispel counts as killing the Duplicate, why wouldn't any other Limitation you applied to it?

...you make an excellent point. Dispel as a Side Effect, then. Or, maybe a compromise to its original effect-

On the duplicate:
Accidental Change: Dispels itself when creator is knocked out.

Power: Dispel Self 20d6. Standard Effect (+0).

Or maybe just nix the accidental change and make the Dispel triggered...

Thanks for the ideas, everybody.

[ghost-angel]

I would personally go with a Limitation on Duplication of "Duplicate cannot exist if Original is unconcious." make it a -1/2 to a -1, depending on how often you plan on knocking out the original. This is essentially a form of Side Effect, since the Duplicate is a free roaming entity it might want to stay that way for a bit, it takes the brunt of the Side Effect downfall in this case.

It's easier to do that trying to Dispel or some such.

don't forget to further make it hurt by adding up damage correctly for the "recombined" enitity now... makes it hurt even further.

[Dust Raven]

Just out of curiosity, why can't the Duplicates recombine at range normally? If they are psychic projections of a sort, it seems to reason they'd stop when the projection stops, be it the originator being knocked out or just turning them off.

[ghost-angel]

Just out of curiosity, why can't the Duplicates recombine at range normally? If they are psychic projections of a sort, it seems to reason they'd stop when the projection stops, be it the originator being knocked out or just turning them off.

Ranged Recombination is a +1/2 Advantage and implies control over the recombination.

He wants the power to "shut off" when unconcious, basically turning Duplication into a Constant power instead of a Persistent one. And having just realized that .. Nonpersistent is a -1/4 Limitation and is probably the most appropriate limitation. With or without the Ranged Recombination advantage. W/O Ranged Recom./Easy Recom. you won't be able to "turn off" the power without taking the normal Full Phase recombination while touching duplication requires.

Personally, to best simulate a psychic projection where you can make your duplicate disappear at will and that automatically disappears when you fall unconcious you should take the +10 Easy Recombination Adder, +1/2 Ranged Recombination and -1/4 Nonpersistent. And possibly tack on Feedback for extra realism/fun.

[PhilFleischmann]

Ghost Angel is correct.

Power stops working when I'm knocked out - That's Nonpersistant exactly. -1/4 Lim.

Everything else is just a special effect.

[Dust Raven]

Personally, to best simulate a psychic projection where you can make your duplicate disappear at will and that automatically disappears when you fall unconcious you should take the +10 Easy Recombination Adder, +1/2 Ranged Recombination and -1/4 Nonpersistent. And possibly tack on Feedback for extra realism/fun.

This is what I was wondering. If he can't keep the Duplicate on while unconscious, what's to stop him from just "turning it off?"

I think ghost-angel's approch is the best here. Unless there is some reason the character actually can't turn it off on his own.

[GamePhil]

Ghost Angel is correct.

Power stops working when I'm knocked out - That's Nonpersistant exactly. -1/4 Lim.

-1/4 is -1/4

[GamePhil]

This is what I was wondering. If he can't keep the Duplicate on while unconscious, what's to stop him from just "turning it off?"

To the best of my knowledge, no one said he couldn't turn it off, or that he shouldn't be able to turn it off at range. Just working out how to do the "knocked out" portion of it, which I agree is just Non-Persistent.

[Dust Raven]

To the best of my knowledge, no one said he couldn't turn it off, or that he shouldn't be able to turn it off at range. Just working out how to do the "knocked out" portion of it, which I agree is just Non-Persistent.

He specifically said he didn't want Ranged Recombine, which implies that normally he'd have to be in contact to do so, and I was wondering why, and how that's possible if the just go away if he's out cold.