Rifts HERO?

[gauss]

Has anyone done any Rifts conversions to the HERO system?

I love the background (though I admit it is cheesy), but damn if I don't pretty much hate the rules. Most of all, I hate the fact that it takes me about the same amount of time to create a Palladium character as it does a HERO character, but all of the Palladium characters of a particular class seem to be exactly the same.

Anyway, thanks to anyone who can point me in the right direction.

[cubist]

This is actually the project that I just started working on the other day. So far I'm working on conversions of the Classes. The way that I'm doing it is as templates that the character can buy with skills (and in the cases of some, powers) in them plus common disadvantages for that class. So far I'm basing this on 100 pt. base +100 pts. disadvantages with package disavantages NOT counting towards their total. This means that Juivcers are much more powerful than, say, cyber docs, but also have much greater problems. Like You, like the setting(well, okay, love the concept of it), but hate the system and the later directions taken with the game. This way, I get to change both the things that I hated about the original

[gauss]

Sweet!

Will you post it to the net when you are ready? I would really like to see it.

[Grymlynn]

Darnit, there was a couple guys on the previous boards whose names escape me, who did really good work building Juicers and Crazies on the old boards. I saved those write-ups, lemme see if I can find them...

[gauss]

Excellent! Thanks!

[Champsguy]

There was a big discussion of this on the old boards. I actually snipped some of them and saved them in a word file. I might still have it.

Here we go. Warning: there's a lot of stuff from me in this thread, so it might not be very interesting. Some of it might not make sense, since I didn't snip the entire conversation, just the parts I wanted for my own writeups.

Enjoy.

Champsguy:
Yech. RIFTS bad.
The starting idea wasn't so awful, but the execution was. There's lots of hackneyed writing, overused ideas, and bad plotlines. The history doesn't really make sense, either. I've got a hundred other complaints.

But that's just me.
If you really want to use RIFTS, there is a way to use mega-damage without things becoming too unbalancing.
In RIFTS, mega-damage is 100x more powerful than normal weapons. Personally, several individuals I know have scaled that back to only 10x more powerful (making sdc weapons of some use). Whichever way you use it (I recommend x10), it's fairly easy to simulate in HERO. +1DC is generally considered to be twice as powerful. Thus, 4DC is twice as powerful as 3DC. To get x10, you only need to add 3 dice. To get x100, you add 7 dice.
A normal assault rifle is a 1 1/2 D6 RKA (5DC, and probably about 5D6 SDC in Palladium). So that means that a 5D6 MD rifle would need to add either 3 or 7 DC to become mega-damage. If you add 3, then your 1 1/2 D6 RKA becomes a 2 1/2 D6 RKA (8DC). This is nice, because it puts you in the same league as VIPER blaster rifles, as well as Star-Hero weapons. That means you could find equivalent RIFTS-level equipment in Champions supplements. If you add 7DC to get MD, then your 1 1/2 D6 RKA becomes a 4D6 RKA (12DC). That's really nasty, but not too far gone to keep stuff in control. You'll just really be emphasizing the "instant death" part of RIFTS.
So here's a few weapons and how they would convert in a RIFTS/HERO crossover. Not that there's a little bit of rounding to get "the feel" right (like for the Boom Gun).
Weapon RIFTS damage at x10 at x100
Laser
Pistol 2D6MD 2D6+1RKA 3.5D6RKA
Laser
Rifle 4D6MD 2.5D6RKA 4D6RKA
SAMAS
Railgun 1D6x10MD 3D6 RKA 4d6+1RKA
Boom Gun 3D6x10MD 4D6 RKA 5D6+1RKA
x10 keeps weapons like the Laser Pistol in line with generic "blaster" pistols (about 6 or 7 D6 EBs). Boom Guns are still super-hero class damage.
This will mean that your armor will be a bit lower than some people may have expected (no 40/40 Armor for a Glitter Boy). Deadboy armor will be equivalent to VIPER armor (imagine that), at around 5/5 or 8/8 for the heavier stuff. SAMAS suits may have 12/12, while a Glitter Boy will be nigh-invulnerable at an 18/18. I suspect they all might have additional PD or ED (nonresistant), probably up to 1/2 the level of the Armor, to keep people from getting stunned to death. That extra PD and ED might be all that seperates MD armor from "normal" SDC armor. Thus, a Deadboy suit would have 8/8 Armor, +4PD/+4ED nonresistant. Given an average soldier's PD of 3, that means 15 total defense. This is superior to SDC plate armor (8 Def), which wouldn't have the extra PD and ED. SDC armors might also have a -1/4 limitation that halves their Def vs. "Mega-Damage" blasts.
So with this system, a laser pistol has a slight chance to do Body, and will drop a handful of Stun through on every shot vs. a Deadboy-equipped soldier. Meanwhile a Boomgun (4D6 RKA) will pop about 6 or 7 Body on the guy and knock him waaaaayyyy out in one shot. As it should be.
NuSoard:

I have designed many of the suits of armor, powered armor and weapons from RIFTS into Hero (for my Star Hero game) and your numbers are pretty close to what I came up with.
Deadboy armor was Def 5 (light) and Def 8 (heavy)
Samas was Def 12 (hard) and the Glitterboy was Def 20 (hard) with some Damage reduction.
The Samas Railgun was 3D6+1K with Autofire-5
The Glitterboy "Boomgun" was 5D6+1K Apx2
Its not too difficult to translate the stuff over. Just ignore the Mega Damage aspect and translate it as it should be for scale... (keep in mind that powered armor should be minimum Def-10. PA meant for heavy combat will oftentimes be hardened, and possibly have some damage reduction to represent durability)
I don't think the handweapons should do astronomical amounts of damage...5-12DC's is more than enough for infantry weaponry...

Nusoard:
Use elemental controls to buy the characteristic bonuses for Juicers and crazies and that cuts their cost down a lot, and allows them to fit into even a 150pt scale game (however a standard RIFTS game should probably run at about 200 points. Very few characters in RIFTS are "normal" and those that are usually have more skills than GOD)
Lets see:
Juicer Package Elemental Control:
10pt EC:
+10STR/+5PD/+5ED (20pts). Cost:10pts
+5Con/+5Bod (20pts) Cost:10pts
+7Dex (21pts) Cost:11pts
+2SPD (20pts) Cost:10pts
+5REC/+20End (20pts) Cost:10pts
+20Stun (20pts) Cost:10pts.
+5"(x4)running/+5"superleap (20pts) Cost:10pts
Total cost: 81pts (for 141pts worth of characteristics)
This gives the average man who goes through Juicer Conversion the following Base Characterisics base/max)
STR:20/30
DEX:17/27
CON:15/25
BOD:15/25
INT:10/20
EGO:10/20
PRE:10/20
COM:10/20
PD:9/15
ED:8/14
SPD:4.7/6.7
REC:12/18
END:50/80
STN:52/82
Running:11"(x4)/17"(x4)
Leaping:9"(x2)
Okay. This is just about right for a starting Juicer. Only costs 81pts (sheesh, only) and in a 150pt game, still leaves 69pts for skills and martial arts. Juicers are about 90% high characteristics anyway, so 69pts should be about right to flesh the juicer out the rest of the way (30pts worth of martial maneuvers and 39pts worth of skills and skill levels..)
Note, in the RIFTS main book it states that a Juicer can lift 4 times more than a nomral person of equivalent strength and endurance. This means an "Average" Juicer has a STR score of 20 compared to the average man's STR of 10 (20 can lift exactly 4 times more than STR 10), so the STR conversion is perfect.
It also states that a Juicer can last 10 times longer than the average man before feeling the effects of exhaustion. With a End of 50 and REC of 12, this is also nearly dead-on. (compared to Joe Averages End 20 and Rec 4)
It also states that Juicers can operate for 5 days straight without needing to sleep and only needs about 3 hours of sleep a night to operate normally (this can be simulated with the No need to sleep Life support power).
The average Juicer can run at 72kpg/45mph!!! in rifts. The Hero conversion can run 105kph/66mph. A trifle fast. A Juicer with Max Spd in RIFTS can run 118kph/73mph. A maxed out Juicer in Hero can run 244kph! If you drop the X4ncbt to X2, that makes an average Juicer run at 53kph/33mph and a maxed out run at 122kph/76mph. About right.
Juicers can leap about 30 feet horizontally. (9.1 meters). The 9" of leaping in Hero gives them the ability to leap nearly 60 feet! (talk about superleap!)
Juicers in RIFTS gain a bonus of +2D4 to PP (the Palladium equivalent to DEX) and +2 actions. The average bonus to +2D4 is +5. in addition to that Juicers gain +4 to roll with the punch and breakfall and +4 to initiative. To incorperate all that I gave Hero Juicers a +7 Dex bonus. The +2 actions I just translated straight over to +2 SPD bonus (the combat round in RIFTS is 15 seconds in length. The combat turn in Hero is 12 seconds in length. The conversion is pretty straight forward)
Rifts Juicers gain a +4 bonus to save vs Psionics and a +6 to save vs mind control specificaly. You might want to give Hero Juicers additional mental defense or Ego based on this. (but only a few points extra)
Rifts Juicers heal 4 times faster than normal. Hero Juicers heal 3 times faster than normal (Rec:12 vs Rec:4) which is close enough. Also it states that Juicers feel almost no pain (the bio-comp does this for them) and that Juicers will not be impaired by pain untill they are quite low on Hit points. This accounts for the ungodly amount of Stun that a Hero Juicer can aquire. Additionaly this also accounts for the higher CON (difficult to stun) and increased Defenses (ignore stun damage for the most part). An attack has to do a minimum of 25pts of stun damage to "Stun" a Hero Juicer. A martial artist with normal strength is hard-pressed to do that much damage, even with an offensive strike! GM's who want juicers to be really tough to take down should consider adding Damage reduction to the Elemental control (25% should be sufficient).
Note: Some GM's may wish to make the Juicer drug injectors OIF or IIF (I suggest IIF as they can be easily hid under clothing). If the drug harness is removed, the bio-comp must then rely on the body's natural chemicals to enhance the character. The bonuses should drop to half of what they are until the drug harness can be reattatched. With this method add a OIF or IIF limitation to the entire EC. This will reduce the cost of the EC and the slots appropriately. (total cost with OIF is 65. With IIF is 73)
The disadvantages of the Juicer are as follows:
Distinctive Feature: Juicer (identifiable drug harness)Easily concealable (under clothing) Causes major reaction/prejudice (10pts): The Juicer has the drug harnes throughout his body. Anyone with this system is immediately recognized as a juicer and will be seen as an immediate threat. Most normal people want nothing to do with them.
Watched: By employer (variable): Most Juicers get their conversion from powerful/rich warlords, who then require a term of service from the juicer. The employers would be considered more powerful with NCI because they usually surround themselves with bodyguards and in RIFTS, money talks. The watched is likely to be at least the 11- level because juicers are just too powerful to allow them to run around unchecked...
Psychological limitation: Drug addict: Common/total (20pts) if deprived of the drug harness or if the Juicer runs out of drugs they will go to extraordinarly lengths to get the drugs back. It is a complete and utter drug addiction. Without the drugs, the Juicer has horrible withdrawls, even worse than the ones suffered by extreme Crack or Heroine addicts.
Reputation: Juicer/14-/Extreme: (20pts) Almost everyone in the Americas knows what a juicer is. Stories about them are legendary (some are of Juicer heroism, but most are about their recklessness and lack of respect for life) and anyone recognizing the character as a Juicer will likely have all sorts of preconcieved misconceptions about them because of the tall tales...
Other psychological disadvantages include:
Reckless (common/strong)
Casual Killer (uncommon/strong)
Deathwish (common/moderate): This means that the juicer seemingly has no fear and will preform feats of impossibly stupid daring do, simply because he/she knows that they are already considered the walking dead.
Overconfidence (common/strong) Juicers KNOW they are the best at combat. No one can defeat them. (or so they think)

Thats my particular conversion of the RIFTS Juicer into Hero. Stay tuned for my Conversion of the Crazy.
As I promised earlier. The Crazy.
The Mind Over Matter project (M.O.M.) is an interesting way of tapping into hidden strength reserves in humans. Both more and less reliable than Juicer Conversion. (Crazies last a lot longer....physically, but go bonkers in about the same time as it takes for a Juicer to "burn-out")
Crazy EC: 10pts
STR+5/+3Con/+3Bod/+3pd/+3ed Active:23 Cost:13
Dex+5/Spd+1 Active:25 Cost:15
Rec+5/End+10/Stn+10 Active: 25 Cost:15
Enhanced Senses:
TrackingScent/+2perception/+2sight perception/+4Rmod-sight Active:26 Cost:16
Bio-Regeneration:
2D6Heal-aid Continuous(+1)Self only(-1/2)Concentrate-0DCV(-1)Extra-time5min(-2) Active:20 Cost:2
Psychic Power:
1 power at 20 Active points. Cost:10
Total EC Cost:71pts.
An Average Crazy should look like this (Average/Max)
STR:15/25
DEX:15/25
CON:13/23
BOD:13/23
INT:10/20
EGO:10/20
PRE:10/20
COM:10/20
PD:6/11
ED:6/11
SPD:3.5/5.5
REC:11/15
END:36/66
STUN:37/67
If you look at the RIFTS Crazy compared to the RIFTS Juicer, you can see that they have almost exactly half the bonuses that Juicers have. Thus, I gave them effectively half the same bonuses. However, Crazies have their senses greatly enhanced and the benefit of psychic powers. I intentionaly left the power undefined, as this will change depending on each individual Crazy. (The EC accounts for up to a 20 AP power with no limitations. Adjust the cost accordingly). Note that even though Crazies are considered Psychics, they were not given an enhanced Ego. That is because RIFTS crazies weren't given an enhanced Mental Endurance (the Palladium equivalent to Ego).
The Crazies bio-regeneration I wrote up as Heal-aid: Self only and not regeneration because first, it does not act automatically...and second, Aid mimicks the way Palladium does it better. Note that in RIFTS, Crazies can regen 2D6HP and 3D6SDC in 2D4Minutes. The average on 2D4 is 5, thus I just chose Extra-time:5minutes. Also, it states that if the Crazy remains in the Regenerative trance for 6 hours, all SDC and an Additional 4D6 Hp will be regenerated...thus I opted to build the Aid as Continuous. Every 5 minutes in the trance, the Crazy will regenerate 2D6 (up to 4 Body and 12 Stun) which will, on average, take the Crazy about an Hour to regenerate from 0body and Stun to full. This is one advantage the Crazy has over the Juicer, in the fact that the Juicer must heal normally (though, the Juicer heals 3-4 times faster than mundanes...its still MUCH slower than the Crazy)
Okay, now for the fun part.
The most important part that seperates the Crazy from everyone else....
Those Wacky Psych lims!
RIFTS system works for this pretty well because the Psych lims are both random and gained as levels of experience are gained. Hero, on the other hand, does not have Levels of experience OR random tables on which to roll Psych lims. Enterprising GM's can design a table..or just use the one in the RIFTS book and apply accordingly (my suggestion to start)
However, that still doesn't solve the problem of giving the crazy more Psych lims as he/she gains experience. What I suggest is that the GM give the character Psych lims for every 10pts of EXP the character accumulates. The GM should design the Psych lim and let the player know what is going on with the character now...this way, the player never knows what his characters psyche is going to come up with next. This does not mean that the GM should take control of the character by any means...this merely gives the GM the ability to afflict the Crazy with colorful psychosis to see how the player is going to deal with them.
Beginning Crazies should have a minimum of 30pts worth of Psychological limitations. The wierder, the better. (these the player can design).
My Guidelines:
Early on, the Crazy should just have a simple psychosis or two. An unreasonable fear (fear of flies?) or perhaps an annoying quirks (bites his nails...loudly) but as time goes on (i.e. gains exp) the psychosis should get more pronounce (old ones get stronger) and more varied (completely new ones) untill such a time that the characters mind Fragments (i.e. creates multiple personalities to handle all the Psychosis)
Minor Psychological Quirks:
These would be anything of a moderate level. Fear of heights, Mild paranoia and lecherousness are all good exmples. The Crazies beginning Psychosis should all start at this level, but get stronger as time goes on.
Major Psychological problems:
These are psych lims at the Strong level. Unreasonable fears, unusual behavior and wierd ethics all fall into this category. Get funky here, its okay (Fear of Gerbles, Delusions, etc)
Unbreakable Psych problems:
These are written up at the Total level. It takes a little while before the crazy develops these problems (30 or more experience accumulated). These Psychological problems can sometimes be downright dangerous, because the crazy cannot be convinced that they are not true. This is best used to represent serious delusions that the crazy is under, such as believing he is a superhero (because of his "powers") or that All Elves are secretly out to get him...beyond this, the mind tends to fragment, which brings us to...
Multiple personalities:
Multiple personalities occurs from some sort of trauma that a person does not wish to deal with. For the Crazy, it develops as a saftey measure so that the mind can continue to operate free of the stress of all its psychological problems.
Multiple personalities can be simulated with a combination of Psychological limitations and Accidental Change Limitation. Use the Accidental Change limitaion to see under what circumstance that a diffenrent personality has a chance of emerging. Split the various Psych lims (by this time, the character should have several) between the various personalities.
Of course, even after developing Multiple personalities, the Crazy will still be developing Psych lims (his mind will still be deteriorating) and those will get shuffled off to new personalities as they stack up. As a guideline, after developing multiple peronalities (around 50exp gained) the Crazy should develop an additional personality for every 20exp gained beyond that. Thus, a 240pt Crazy that started at 150pts, should probably have 4 personalities, minimum...(and upwards of 9 various Psychosis)
According to the RIFTS book, about 30% of Crazies suffer from Frenzy. This can also be considered one of their Psychosis and can develop at any point in a Crazy's career...
Stay tuned for the O.O.C....wait, I mean, Package Deals for both The Crazy and The Juicer.
Morningstar:

Okay.
Borgs should be easy.
First there's the Headhunters - they have one bionic limb. The limb itself should be bought to the Strength (properly rounded.) Ie: Amanda Kirk (my first Head Huntress, very high Comliness, I loved her) had a neat Bionic Arm.
I bought the arm as STR 25, 0 End, Right Arm Only -1/4, Does Not Affect Figured Str -1/2, Cybernetic Focus -1/4, Strength Independant of Base Char Strength -1. What does that last one mean? It means Strength starts at 0 for the Arm, and Amanda will have trouble if she tries to lift something more than her body normally could. For Example, Amanda can push the STR of the Bionic Limb to get a jeep off an ally, but she then takes 7d6 Damage for overstressing her body. The limb cost 13 points.
Cybernetic focus has been seen around a few places. I have Cyber-Hero, and I still can't quite fathom it. My interpretation - Cybernetics can be turned off or adversely affected by magnetic fields.
Mounted Weapons were either OIF or OAF depending on their vulnerability.
A partial conversion borg has a reinforced spine and skeleton, full limb replacement most likely, and a load of sensors in their head and body. Buy the Stats straight over, but round. A 24 STR isn't worth as much as either a 23 or a 25 STR. The Strength, Dex, and Running should be bought to 0 End (where appropriate), Does Not Affect Figured Characteristics, and Cybernetic Disadvantage.
To convert running, divide the final rate by 8, and buy the number of inches to reach that speed, and then give x4 NCM. (Say 122 yards gives you 15"x4NCM.)
Full Borgs buy Strength and Movement at 0 End. Instead of any of the previous limitations, buy levels of Growth, buy Damage Resistance to full level, but he has the Disadvantage: Physical Limitation: Does Not Heal, Must Be Repaired. A Full Conversion Borg is more robot than man. Since he can be deactivated, keep the Cybernetic focus limitation. Why lose "Does not affect figured?" Because you have a Brick, with snap-on guns. This Brick should have immunity to disease and aging, since most of his vulnerable organs are gone. Breathe Unusual should be taken too. Other life supports as necessary.

Champsguy:
Some more of my Rifts/Hero babblings:
I whipped up a few Rifts characters in Hero, and found that a good starting point for a fairly powerful Rifts character is 150 points.
Now, since it's a heroic power level game, you're not going to be spending points on mega damage weapons (you're gonna spend money on them). This also seems to mirror Paladium's view on external weapons and innate powers. One character has to spend PPE and attain 5th level before he can fire chronal energy blasts (5D6 MD) at someone, and it's a major hook of his character (I'm not talking about any character in specific, just a general Palladium trend). But anyone can pick up a MD rifle and shoot 5D6 blasts at people, without attaining 5th level and without having it be a major hook of their character.
This is good, since it means that a staple of the "balance" (and I use that term with as loose a meaning as possible) of Rifts is not disrupted. In other words, in Rifts, if a character has the innate ability to shoot energy blasts, then it's considered a major character ability that "balances out" against weaknesses your character might have (even if that ability sucks--virtually anybody with a magic sword is far better armed than a cyber-knight with his PsiSword, but he still counts it as a major part of his character abilities). This is the same as Champions charging a character points for an ability that can be duplicated for free by someone with a high powered weapon. The logic Siembieda uses is that your character can never truly be disarmed (unless they happen to have a Psi-Nullifier near you, and totally ignoring the idea that if they hadn't been given such a suck-ass power they might never have been caught in the first place). So we just carry that logic over to Hero and we charge points for innate abilities, but not for Mega Damage weapons. And I ask you, what is Rifts without Siembieda logic???
So anyway, 75 points + 75 in disadvantages seems pretty good. That lets you construct a nice juicer or crazy (are the juicer and crazy templates still up on this board? I forgot who posted them, but they worked well). The problem came when trying to make a SAMAS or Glitter Boy pilot. Do we charge points for the power armor? You could certainly build them as a vehicle. But even then, the expense becomes monstrous (even if you ignore the fact that a vehicle becomes much more expensive if it's more points than it's owner). So I decided to cheat. I made being a pilot of such a machine (which I ended up just building as a focus, since that's the way it plays in Rifts) a perk. It costs 25 points to be a SAMAS or Glitter Boy pilot. This represents training, security clearance, and a lot of other crap that allows you to effectively use the suit. If you're a coalition guy, it represents authorization. If you've got a black market suit, it represents those contacts. I suppose it could be broken down into individual contacts, smaller perks (5 point perk: coalition authorization for Samas use; 5 point perk: Samas training; etc), but I didn't feel any particular need for that.
How did I come up with 25 points? Easy. I didn't want one character to build a guy with 150 points worth of stats, skills, and abilities, and then be able to just grab a Samas suit as well, while another character took virtually the exact same skills and got stuck with Dead Boy armor. So again, Rifts logic came of use. A Samas pilot is an OCC. That means that there's enough training required so that not everyone can do it. Siembieda obviously thought that there was a difference between everyone running around with a laser rifle and everyone running around with power armor. So therefore it had to cost some sort of points, and not be free equipment. On the other hand, it's not unbelievably more powerful than off-the-rack stuff. Paying full cost for it would mean that nobody would take it. So basically, I fleshed out what I thought would be a good starting package for the Samas pilot (all the normal starting skills, decent stats, etc) and then looked at how many points were left over. The decent starting stats and skills (with a little extra for personal touches) put him at about 125 points, so I promptly decided that the extra 25 were a good price for the "Samas fee" and charged him that.
Now, on to defenses:
Remember, Rifts is Palladium and this is Hero.
In other words, certain Palladium game mechanics aren't gonna apply here. Just like you don't spend Endurance in Palladium, you don't have to worry about Armor Ratings here. If someone rolls a 4 to hit you, you're still gonna be protected by your armor (unless you buy it on an activation roll).
Also, just like in the D&D conversion to Hero, where Armor Class isn't represented by a simple modification to DCV, but as actual Armor (Full Plate isn't +8 DCV, but +8/8 Armor), the method for determining armor protection in Hero and Rifts will differ as well. Armor degrades in Rifts because that's the way Palladium handles it--that's their standard, regardless of whether it's in Heroes Unlimited, Palladium Fantasy, Nightbane, or Rifts. In Hero, armor doesn't degrade. That's not the Hero standard. It doesn't degrade in Champions, Fantasy Hero, Horror Hero, Western Hero, or in Cyber Hero. So in our case, armor won't degrade in Hero Rifts. If we were converting Palladium Fantasy, no one would advocate degrading plate mail (like there was something inherently different in the armor from that world), so why should it degrade in Rifts? Answer: it shouldn't.
So we have to go with the Hero standard: armor reduces damage taken per shot. This becomes a lot easier now, because you don't have to worry about funky ablative limitations. So you figure that a MD personal weapon should be able to hurt a guy in MD body armor, and likewise a MD power armor weapon should be able to hurt power armor. I gave a few examples earlier in this thread. A good measurement is probably +2/2 or +3/3 armor for each doubling of Mega Damage Capacity of armor (and then add half again that amount in non-resistant def for the obligatory "stun shield" to protect the occupant from getting knocked out too much). That seems to work pretty well. For vehicles, just use the base Armor (and not the increased nonresistant PD/ED), since they don't have to worry about Stun.
5/5 Armor (+3 PD +3 ED): 50-60 MDC
8/8 Armor (+4 PD +4 ED): 100-120 MDC
12/12 Armor (+6 PD +6 ED): 200-250 MDC (light power armor like Samas)
15/15 Armor (+8 PD +8 ED): 400-500 MDC (Atlantis power armor/large vehicles)
18/18 Armor (+9 PD +9 ED): 800-1000 MDC (Glitter Boys and other really, really tough stuff)
So a Glitter Boy would probably be around 17/17 Armor, with +9/9 PD and ED additionally. Add that to the 5 PD and 5 ED that the pilot probably has, and you're looking at a guy with 31 total defense. Most attacks will harmlessly bounce right off, even things like Samas rail guns. In Rifts, a boom gun will take 7 or 8 shots to down another Glitter Boy. Here, with a 4D6 RKA Boom Gun, that's an average of 14 Body and (assuming a x3 Stun multiplier) 42 Stun. So the pilot takes 11 Stun on an average shot (some will do much more, some much less). If you want, you could have the Glitter Boy give the pilot an extra 10 or 20 Stun, to represent it's durability even more. Probably one 1 out of 3 shots will put Body on the guy, and assuming a Body of 11 or 12, that's only 3 or 4 above average shots before the pilot inside is dying. Is it exactly the same odds as in Rifts? No. That's like 9 or 10 shots until he's dead, not 7 or 8. You can tweak the numbers bit by bit until it's really close. One damage class here, one point of armor here, and you can get the exact results you want.
Better yet, this lets you have Superman fly in and do a 25D6 grab and tear that Glitter Boy armor right off the guy (which is how it is in the comics). So then you don't have to use crappy Heroes Unlimited for you super-brawls.

Morningstar:
I'm glad you checked out the Kazei 5 borgs. As soon as I saw them, I was making a mental note to send you to Michael Surbrook's webpage which had a nice long, drawn-out description of Kazei 5 cyborgs - highly similar to Rifts Cyborgs.
Also, the Kazei 5 psychics seem ideally suited to a Rifts Supertelekinetic RCC.
Some points/thoughts on Rifts Conversions:
1) Preserve the OCC's/RCC's. They make good basises for Package deals.
2) Use Fantasy Hero extensively for demons, dragons and Deebee Racial Package Deals and Social Package deals. I'll see what I can do today for a Dragon Package Deal.
3) When dealing with weapon conversions:
Equate the Megadamage Weapon to an SDC Weapon. Find the equivalent in Hero. Add 6 Damage Classes. Voila, Mega-damage weapon.
4) For Mega-Armor: Don't forget that when you put on the Dead Boy Armor, you get +5 DEF Armor, you should also get full Damage Resistance for your DEF already. Buy the extra Damage Resistance as:
Damage Resistance: 10 PD and 10 ED are Resistant, Only up to DEF of User -1/2, OIF Armor. 5 pts.
Example.
Mike wants to buy a set of Heavy Dead Boy Armor as a focus, so that he can get it repaired without spending amounts of money on it - having it bought with points as a focus simulates Mike having an armor repair kit and a reserve of cash and/or spare parts devoted to his beloved armor.
The Heavy Dead Boy Armor is bought as:
a) Armor: +8rPD/+8rED, OIF Armor: 16pts.
b) Damage Resistance: 10 PD/10ED Resistant, Only up to PD/ED of user -1/2, OIF Armor: 5pts.
c) Life Support: Need Not Breathe (1 Charge lasting 1 Hour - 7pts), Safe in Radiation, Safe in Extreme Temperatures: 9pts.
d) +10 Presence, Offensive Only, OIF Armor: 4pts.
e) Radio Communication: Radio Listen and Transmit: OIF Armor: 3pts.
f) IR Vision: OIF Armor: 3 pts.
Mike's armor is worth 40 points. Note: This can be put towards Mike's equipment allottance, and remember, this armor puts him on a more equal footing with more powerful characters.
Just some thoughts. Anything else?
For the 50th post in this thread, I figured I'd lay a basic Headhunter on you.
Note: Without the package deal, Stetson is exorbandently powerful.
Name: Mike Stetson - Headhunter
Val Char Cost
18 STR 8
18 DEX 24
18 CON 16
12 BODY 4
13 INT 3
11 EGO 2
15/25 PRE 5
10 COM 0
6 PD 2
6 ED 2
4 SPD 12
8 REC 0
36 END 0
30 STUN 0
Characteristic Rolls:
STR: 13-, DEX: 13-, CON: 13-, INT: 12-, EGO: 11-, PER: 14-
Run: 6", Swim: 2", Jump: 4" long/2" high, Lift: 300kg/660 lbs.
Cost Powers END/Roll
3 Deadboy Armor Elemental Control 5 pt. Reserve, OIF Armor -1/2
13 a) Armor: +8rPD/+8rED, OIF Armor
3 b) Damage Resistance: 10 PD/10ED Resistant, Only up to PD/ED of user -1/2, OIF
Armor
5 c) Life Support: Need Not Breathe (1 Charge lasting 1 Hour - 7pts), Safe in Radiation,
Safe in Extreme Temperatures
2 d) +10 Presence, Offensive Only -1, OIF Armor
3 Radio Communication: Radio Listen and Transmit: OIF Armor
3 IR Vision: OIF Armor
40 Firebreather A-14 Assault Multipower (100 Point Reserve), OAF Laser Rifle, Two-Handed
Weapon -1/2
4u Assault Laser: 4d6 RKA, 4 Clips of 30 Charges (+1/2), Beam Attack -1/4, No
Knockback -1/4
2u Grenade Launcher: 3d6 RKA Explosion, 4 Clips of 4 Charges (-3/4)
1u Targeting Optics: +2 OCV
23 Vibro Knife: 3d6 HKA vs. ED (4d6 w/STR) OAF -1
17 Combat Motorcycle
6 Alert and Perceptive: +2 w/All Perception
18 Headhunter Combat (Dirty Infighting)
Maneuver OCV DCV Effect
(4) Block 8 8 Block, Abort
(4) Disarm 5 7 Disarm, 28 STR/35 STR w/Bionic Arm
(4) Elbow Smash/
Punch 6 8 5 1/2d6/7d6 w/Bionic Arm
(5) Roundhouse/
Low Kick 4 7 7 1/2d6/9d6 w/Bionic Arm
(1) Use Art with Bionic Arm
Cost Skills, Talents, Perks Roll
9 + 3 Levels w/Dirty Infighting
6 +3 Levels w/Forearm Blaster
10 +2 Levels w/Small Arms
6 Headhunter Package
(5) Headhunter Cybernetics and Bionics Elemental Control (5 Pt. Reserve)
(2) a) Bionic Arm: + 7 Strength, 0 END +1/2, Doesn't Affect Characteristics -1/2,
Right Arm Only -1/4, OIF Bionic Arm -1/2
(3) b) Retractable Finger Blades: 1/2d6 HKA (1d6 w/STR), Right Arm Only -1/4,
OIF Bionic Arm -1/2
(26) c) Forearm Ion Blaster: 10d6 EB, Beam Attack -1/4, OIF Bionic Arm -1/2, Feeds off
END Reserve
(2) d) Headjack: Mind Link, Any One Mind, Only With Computerized Items -1, Cybernetic -1/4
(4) Ion Blaster Power Battery, END Reserve: 30 END, 3 REC, OIF Bionic Arm
(3) Criminology: 12-
(3) Streetwise: 12-
(3) Survival: 12-
(3) Tracking: 12-
3 Well Travelled
6 AK's @ 11-: Coalition Northern Gun Territory 11-, Coalition: Chi-Town Territory 11-, Lazlo
11-, Ishpimeg 11-, Free Quebec 11-, Tolkeen 11-
3 Scholar
5 KS's @ 11-: Coalition Military Forces 11-, Common DeeBees 11-, Common Monsters 11-,
Wanted Fugitives 11-, Rifts North America Hotspots 11-
3 Combat Driving: Motorcycle 13-
3 Navigation: 11-
3 Demolitions: 11-
3 Gambling: 11-
3 Trading: 12-
5 Wealth: Well Off
1 Literacy
150+ Disadvantages
3 Headhunter Package Bonus
5 Package: Distinctive Features: Headhunter (Easily Concealed, Noticed and Recognized)
15 Package: Distinctive Features: Bionic Limb(s) (Not Concealable, Noticed and
Recognized)
15 Package: Psych Lim: Headhunter's Code of Honor, Common, Strong
10 Package: Reputation: Headhunter (Gun for hire) 11-
15 Psych. Lim: Hates Bigotry of Any Kind, Common, Strong
10 Psych. Lim: Vengeful, Uncommon, Strong
25 Hunted: The Coalition, More Powerful, NCI, 11-, Harsh
10 Enraged: Innocents are Harmed, Common, 11-, 11-
15 DNPC: Geeluk (DeeBee Child), Incompetant, Useful Skills, 14-
10 Reputation: Outlaw Headhunter Fighting the Coalition, 11-
5 Rivalry: Other Headhunters (Professional)
10 Phys Lim: Cannot Heal Damage to Bionics, Needs Specialized Technical Assistance,
Infrequently, Greatly.
15 Hunted: Renegade Magician Whose Plot Was Foiled, As Pow, 11-, Harsh
31 Experience
Equipment: 119 points.
OCV: 6; DCV: 6; ECV: 4; Mental Def.: 0; Phases: 3, 6, 8, 12
PD/rPD: 14/14; ED/rED: 14/14
COSTS: Char.: 78 Disad.: 184
Powers: + 87/206 w/Equipment Base: + 100
Total: = 165/284 w/Equipment Total: = 284
Stetson is a throwback to the old Wild West, pre-Rifts, except, that instead of a Winchester Lever Action and a trusty six-gun, he has a six-shot ion blaster in one forearm and an assault laser rifle and a grenade launcher. He's a man of honor and tolerance for the differences of life, to a point where he has become a hated enemy of the Coalition States. One such conflict resulted in Stetson picking up a small DeeBee child of psychic ability named Geeluk and caring for her. She refuses to go with anyone else, but in a fight will stay well hidden while Stetson goes to town.
In combat, Stetson tries to keep some distance between himself and his enemies, unless he's bringing in a bounty. Then he closes to hand-to-hand range and gives as good as he can, relying on his quickness and the bionic strength of his right arm. If he can't handle the enemy with mere muscle, he resorts to his Vibro-Knife and finger blades.
Nusoard:

RIFTS CONVERSIONS:
THE CYBERKNIGHT
5pt elemental control(5):
+3STR/DEX: ACT(12) REAL(7)
+3CON/BOD: ACT(12) REAL(7)
+4PRE/+3EGO: ACT(10) REAL(5)
+1SPD: ACT(10) REAL(5)
+10STN: ACT(10) REAL(5)
PSI Sword-1D6HKA(15)AP(+1/2)0End(+1/2): ACT(30)Real(25)
Cost: 59
Optional PSI Powers:
Note: Many Cyberknights train their mind to the point where they develop Psi powers in addition to the Psisword. Any psi power is applicable. In general these are limited to 30 active points or less at the start and limited in number as well. Add any Psi powers to the Elemental control. Common powers include:
Empathy: (Telepathy, only to read targets emotional state. Includes Detect emotions which is bought targeting)
Mind Block: (+10 Mental Defense, Resistant. Additional abilities include 25% Mental Reduction)
Object Read: (Clairsentience: Retrocognition...based on Focus)
See the invisible
Sense Evil (targeting of course)
Sense Magic (also targeting)
Sixth Sense (danger sense, out of combat, anyone near)
Speed Reading (pretty straightforward)
Summon inner strength (+10STN/+5CON[not af figured] Cost end)
note that the above abilities are typical, but by no means indicate the only abilities a Cyberknight exhibits. Any Psi power can manifest.
Note that the Cyberknight has extensive physical and mental training which is similar to the training that Shaolin monks recieve, and is reflected in the above statistics in the EC. All of the Characteristics DO affect figured characteristics.
Here's the Skill package:
Literacy (w/American): 1pt
Language (Elven/Dragon): 2pts
Language (pick two at basic proficiency): 2pts
KS: Demons and Supernatural evil at +1: 3pts
KS: Anthropology: 2pts
Paramedic: 3pts
Navigation: 3pts
Riding: 3pts
Climbing: 3pts
Acrobatics: 3pts
WF: Small arms: 2pts
WF: Common Melee: 2pts
15 points worth of Martial Arts Maneuvers.
Perk: Fringe Bennie-Cyberknight: 5pts
Skill package 48 points.
Note that the Fringe benefit, CyberKnight means that when the character is recognized as a Cyberknight in many places he will be the object of adulation by the population at large. This is a two sided coin in the fact that, yes, the CyberKnight will often get free food, clothing, gifts, lodging, sex (yeah, the chicks dig them...too bad most C-Knights are boyscouts and turn it down) but they also will be hunted by the Coalition, by evil warlords and intelligent evil beasties. They will also get approached by peasants who will have problems they believe the C-knight will be able to solve...oftentimes problems big enough to get the knight killed.
The following are typical Disadvantage found in Cyberknights:
DNPC: It is common for knights to take on an apprentice. This "squire" will be a burden on the knight until such a time that he is skilled enough to hold his own. Oftentimes knights will be given charge to protect someone for an unspecified amount of time.
Distinctive Feature: Many knights (though not all) dress the part. They wear medieval style armor (though still high tech in manufacture and function), ride war horses (though sometimes Cybernetic or robotic in nature) and use melee weapons (teched out of course) against even advanced opponents. Their behavior as well, is oftentimes so pronounce, it identifies them almost instantly.
Hunted and Watched: More often hunted than watched. The Cyberknight monastery is so remote, that it cannot keep tabs on all of its knights...though certain knights will be watched at times. The Coalition states has a bounty on all Cyberknights, so this is a given.
Psychological Limitation: there are many that would apply, but the main one's include:
Code of the CyberKnight: this is required of all knights. It is a cross between the Code of Chivalry, Code of Bushido and Code of Honor. For most knights it is Common and Total. Any knight who does not follow this code will be brought in to face justice at the monestary by their fellow knights.
Public Identity: Many Cyberknights exploits become legendary. In certain areas, cyberknights often become figures of tall tales. Particularly famous Cyberknights are treated like the Rifts equivalent to a 21st century Movie Star or Rock Star.
Reputation: Cyberknights definately have reputations. If a person is revealed to be a knight, most people how certain preconceptions about them. This can often work against a knight as it will work for them.
Rivalry: A friendly rivalry often arises between knights during their training period. Sometimes Cyberknights and Undead Slayers compete on who is the better slayer of evil.
Secret Identity: Some Cyberknight prefer to go incognito. The amount of attention a cyberknight generates is just too much for their tastes...so they don't dress like a cyberknight, or overtly act like one (or the obvious ones in anycase).
There you have it. The Cyberknight.
Affordable in a 150point game, and not too shabby on the physical side as well.
The Cyberknight package includes most of the skill necesary to get along in the world of Rifts (except for maybe Powered Armor or vehicle piloting) and even after purchasing the Skill package and the basic EC, there is still 43 points let to customize with in a 150 point game or 93 points(!) left in a 200 point game.
Note that the Cyber Armor was left out. I think it should be player choice whether or not their character employs the cyberarmor. In anycase, use subdermal armor characteristics foundin Kazei-5 (should use Subdermal-3 costs 8 points for 7DEF armor which covers locations 9-12)
Morningstar:

Juicer fixer...
Juicer Package Elemental Control:
10pt EC:
+10STR/+5PD/+5ED (20pts). Cost:10pts
+5Con/+5Bod (20pts) Cost:10pts
+7Dex (21pts) Cost:11pts
+2SPD (20pts) Cost:10pts
+5REC/+20End (20pts) Cost:10pts
+20Stun (20pts) Cost:10pts.
+5"(x4)running/+5"superleap (20pts) Cost:10pts
Total cost: 81pts (for 141pts worth of characteristics)
3 Juicer Amplification Elemental Control, All Stats OIF Juicer Chemical Collar -1/2,
5 point Reserve
2 a) Increased Physique: +10 STR, Does Not Affect Figured -1/2
10 b) Increased Agility: +7 Dex, Does Not Affect Figured -1/2
2 c) Increased Endurance: +5 Con, Does Not Affect Figured -1/2
2 d) Increased Physique: + 5 Body, Does Not Affect Figured -1/2
3 e) Increased Durability: +5PD/+5ED, 5
10 f) Increased Reflexes: +2 SPD
3 g) Increased Endurance: +5 REC
3 h) Increased Endurance: +20 END
10 f) Increased Durability: +20 Stun
7 g) Increased Mobility: +5" x 4 Mobility
Total Cost: 55 points for 126 points worth of Characteristics.
Now for the disadvantages:
15 Phys Lim: Addicted to Juicer Collars, Frequently, Minor
15 Dependance: Juicer Collar (15 points worth, I'm without my book)
15 Phys Lim: Juicer Drugs Will Kill Character 4-8 Years From Getting Juicer Collar.
So, let's say 10 points for being a Drugged Up Superman...
Except you aren't gonna live a long time in game time.
Temporal Wizards should be able to stack up Juicers like cordwood with just a wave.

Champsguy:
My thoughts on Rifts and ECs:
There's nothing wrong with giving Juicers and Crazies ECs, since the GM is writing them up. Sure, if players were doing the writeups, you'd have a problem. But since the GM defines everything, it's safe. So really, there's not much difference between giving a Juicer an EC and giving him an extra 60 points.
There is however, one reason I came across to allow the use of ECs. Rifts has unbalanced character classes by nature. Players and GMs alike know that a juicer is gonna beat the hell out of a squad of coalition soldiers. As it is (using the ECs, and not paying points for weapons), I found that you can build a nice juicer for 150 points. But if you try and build an average coalition grunt on 150 points, he becomes waaaaaaaaayyy too skilled. Remember, these are guys who can't even read. They're much more accurate if they're built on 100 points. So basically, you've got a breakdown of expense:
At the top of the list:
Cyberknights--the combination of cybernetics, psionics, combat abilities, and skills results in a high cost. 150+ points for a good conversion.
Juicers and Crazies are next. The EC gives a good cost break to these powerful character classes. They don't have a lot of skills, but they make up for it with high stats. 150 points.
Power armor pilots--these characters have good stats and lots of skills. I charged a 25 pt "power armor fee" that bumped them up to 150. Otherwise, 125 points for a solid character.
Grunts--these guys aren't as highly trained as their power armored brothers. If built on 150 points, then they've got way too many skills. 100 points.
Basically, to build a good Juicer/Crazy/Cyber Knight without some kind of cost break is gonna mean that they're gonna be twice as expensive as another character. Putting in the EC gives you a little similarity in point costs, at least. Even then, some characters are gonna be less than others. Any skill character built on a full 150 are gonna have about all the skills they'll need. Champions stats convert almost straight across, so most'll have stats in the 13-18 range (for their good stats) or 10-15 (for their average stats). That means they'll have a ton of points left for skills. That's way more than your average city rat needs.
There's one more reason to allow the EC. Rifts has its own internal "balance" to it. Giving Juicer ECs helps keep that balance. After all, a juicer gets his stat bonuses from a juicer harness and drugs. A pilot gets his from a SAMAS suit. Why should one pay the full points for his stats, while another gets his for free? That's why it's acceptable to give juicers a cost break.

[gauss]

Thanks Champsguy! This should prove helpful.

[cubist]

Wow, thanks Champsguy, I might not use all of that stuff, but it was nice to get it for a sort of effort reduction method on my part.

[Grymlynn]

Champsguy, you da bomb! That was precisely what I was talking about, but I couldn't find it... So, I believe I'll be using the ol' cut&paste...

[Old Man]

That was a good read except mega damage weapons are 10,000% more powerful than standard weapons. The point being that if you were hit by the most rinky dink mega damage weapon you would die unless you had mega damage armor. Pretty minor point.

[Champsguy]

Originally posted by Shadowpup
That was a good read except mega damage weapons are 10,000% more powerful than standard weapons. The point being that if you were hit by the most rinky dink mega damage weapon you would die unless you had mega damage armor. Pretty minor point.

That was addressed in the discussion. To put it bluntly, we went with "that am stupid and us change it to make better".

Also, Rifts has a little problem with their damage numbers. You see, a modern day tank has about 800 SDC. A mere 2D6 MD pistol will blow up a tank a good portion of the time. However, 2D6 MD isn't even 100 times as powerful as a standard palladium handgun (3D6 to 4D6 SDC). Why is that a problem? Because, in real life, if you shoot a weapon that's 50 to 75 times as powerful as a 357 magnum at a tank, you're still not gonna do jack to the tank. Anti-tank weapons are hundreds (plural), if not thousands of times more powerful than normal handguns. Rifts' numbers am skewed in the first place. Therefore we felt okay with tweaking the numbers towards our tastes.

[cubist]

Champs, one thing I noticed on quickly perusing that file(have not yet had time to read through it)- what's up with using ECs for Juicers and Crazies- I mean it is less expensive, but characteristics other than strength cannot go into ECs, right? Otherwise, nifty stuff that I'm looking forward to sifting through.

[Champsguy]

Originally posted by cubist
Champs, one thing I noticed on quickly perusing that file(have not yet had time to read through it)- what's up with using ECs for Juicers and Crazies- I mean it is less expensive, but characteristics other than strength cannot go into ECs, right? Otherwise, nifty stuff that I'm looking forward to sifting through.

Well, two things. One, this is a little old, and 5th Edition was only a pipe dream when we were discussing this. Two, there might be some discussion in there as to why ECs were used (and there might not). I snipped a lot of the conversations, but that was only so I could access certain stuff while offline (thus a lot of stuff got left out). There was a large debate on using ECs, and it may or may not be in there. The general idea was that Juicers and Crazies can be on the same teams as Borgs, City Rats, and Glitter Boys. ECs were some attempt at giving everyone a similar starting point level. There was, however, much disagreement as to whether we should even bother with that.

I'm not really advocating one way or another.

[Old Man]

Originally posted by Champsguy
That was addressed in the discussion. To put it bluntly, we went with "that am stupid and us change it to make better".

Also, Rifts has a little problem with their damage numbers. You see, a modern day tank has about 800 SDC. A mere 2D6 MD pistol will blow up a tank a good portion of the time. However, 2D6 MD isn't even 100 times as powerful as a standard palladium handgun (3D6 to 4D6 SDC). Why is that a problem? Because, in real life, if you shoot a weapon that's 50 to 75 times as powerful as a 357 magnum at a tank, you're still not gonna do jack to the tank. Anti-tank weapons are hundreds (plural), if not thousands of times more powerful than normal handguns. Rifts' numbers am skewed in the first place. Therefore we felt okay with tweaking the numbers towards our tastes.

Oh no agree, I was just stating that your numbers were a little off. I found it distracting that no matter how tough you are in Rifts, if you aren't wearing armor, you're dead. The thing that threw me off was the whole "wow! this guy has have over 200 hp!...oh yeah, so what?"

[Champsguy]

Originally posted by Shadowpup
Oh no agree, I was just stating that your numbers were a little off. I found it distracting that no matter how tough you are in Rifts, if you aren't wearing armor, you're dead. The thing that threw me off was the whole "wow! this guy has have over 200 hp!...oh yeah, so what?"

Yeah, it irritated me too. That's why I lowered it to x10 damage for the conversions (although I think there are a few notes in there for making it the usual x100).