Block Maneuver Silliness...

[etherio]

Hey fellow Herophiles...

We have for years occasionally run across a problem where a player wants to use a block maneuver against something ridiculous...Xandarr the fantasy martial-artist and his triple-iron vs. the jaws of wyverns the size of clydesdales, Photon the normal-strength super hero vs. a 50STR goon of King Cobra, etc. I know there are rules about weapon breakage that control this somewhat, but there seems to be no real mechanism for determining if a guy is capable of blocking an attack other than comparative OCV. Of course, GM watchfulness is important, but its often arbitrary. It could seem especially unfair in a supers game where points are paid for everything and special effect probably shouldn't make one character's block maneuver crappier than another's.

How do you folks handle this in your games? Do you have any good house rules for drawing the line?

Please share,
etherio

[Hawksmoor]

Actually I find the Block rules appropriate. I only use HERO system for Superheroes so it fits. Heroes are over the top as it were. A Martial Artist can Martial Block Grond, it makes me not the slightest bit worried about the integrity of the game. I might even allow a block vs. a Ranged Attack with the right description and SFX.

Hawksmoor

[Chris Goodwin]

Block doesn't necessarily represent literally sticking your hand or an object up to stop someone from hitting you. It's just avoiding the attack in some way, SFX to be determined by the circumstances. So yeah, the little guy can block the mega-attack.

[Hyper-Man]

FYI, there was a similar thread last month labeled 'fist vs. train'

[Solomon]

Block doesn't necessarily represent literally sticking your hand or an object up to stop someone from hitting you. It's just avoiding the attack in some way, SFX to be determined by the circumstances. So yeah, the little guy can block the mega-attack.

What he said.

[etherio]

I realize the whole rationalization bit for SFX, but that gets a bit stretched sometimes. I just wondered how other HERO gamers treated this subject. I never saw that other thread...maybe I'll take a peek.

[Black Rose]

I'm sure something could be done with Knockback and such, at least on the Superheroic end. I mean seriously, if Joe Watanabe tries to Block a punch from Grond, he's going to experience the joy of flight... uncontrolled flight, but there you are.

[Mentor]

Yah, what Black Rose said. I do agree that block represents a wide array of SFX, but, as previous posters so well stated, some attacks are just to be avoided and without any combat advantage for the next phase. I realize some players think they can use a block maneuver on a locomotive and still have their movement and combat bonuses intact, but if the PC doesn't dodge or get out of the way in our campaign, they better be a Brick because they are going to have a lot of dice fall on their head if the attack hits.

[TheEmerged]

I realize the whole rationalization bit for SFX, but that gets a bit stretched sometimes. I just wondered how other HERO gamers treated this subject. I never saw that other thread...maybe I'll take a peek.

I can specifically address one of your examples -- the martial artist blocking the biting wyvern. You see this done all the time in movies -- the ever popular "stick a board/pipe/something long enough in their mouth so they can't close it" trick.

As for Grond vs a martial artist in a super heroic campaign? Again, it's a matter of special effect. Perhaps the martial artist "blocks" by redirecting the blow slightly, or by rolling with it enough that it doesn't actually hurt, or by jumping up so high the blow misses, or by performing an impossibly fast acrobatic move...

This is the HERO System. Don't let the fact that the manuever is named "Block" limit you. It's just a mechanic. It's just a mechanic. Keep saying that like a mantra if necessary

Of course, had I been responsible for Grond's writeup he'd have several "Hard to Block" levels (5-point levels bought with "only to increase OCV against blocks" at -1 1/2). That's a fairly common brick trick in writeups I do (my rewrite of Ironclad has 2 of them for example).

[Vorsch]

A block defined as not being hit is called a dodge, theres a mechanic for that as well.

SFX is one thing, linguistic redefinition is quite another.

[TheEmerged]

A block defined as not being hit is called a dodge, theres a mechanic for that as well.

SFX is one thing, linguistic redefinition is quite another.

Actually, no. Dodge is defined as 'becoming harder to hit'. Block is when you actively do something that, if successful, 'negates the attack'. Those are different mechanics.

[Lord Liaden]

A block defined as not being hit is called a dodge, theres a mechanic for that as well.

SFX is one thing, linguistic redefinition is quite another.

IMHO, it's not linguistic redefinition so much as giving SFX the appropriate game-mechanic label.

For example, simply avoiding an attack, thereby making yourself harder to hit, would be called a Dodge. Avoiding an attack in such a way that your attacker is left off-balance and open to your first-strike counterattack, would be called a Block.

[Lord Liaden]

Addressing the subject of the thread directly: for PCs who define the SFX of their Block Maneuver as actually putting a part of their body in the way of the attack, I've had success with assessing a penalty based on the relative Strengths of the opponents. For every multiple of the Blocking character's Strength that the attacker is using to attack, the defender suffers a -1 penalty to the Block. So, if a STR 20 character tries to Block a blow from a STR 60 opponent, his Maneuver is at -3 OCV. Believe it or not, given the choice some players will actually take that penalty for the sake of added realism. A variant of this method would be similar to that used for Mental Powers: -1 to the Block for each +10 STR the attacker has greater than the defender (it's grainier this way, but the penalties add up faster). If you want a narrower definition of Block, you could decree that this applies to all uses of Block in your campaign. It would be a factor much more often in superheroic than heroic games, though.

Since the 5E Bestiary came out, I've also been experimenting with Block penalties based on the Size Templates for creatures larger than human on pp. 26-27 of that book: -1 for Large, -2 for Enormous, -3 for Huge etc. Given the common Strength ranges for heroic characters, that squares fairly well with my Strength-multiple method above.

[Gary]

One thing that can limit some of the silliness is that area effects can't be blocked. So a martial artist can't block a train or Godzilla.

[lemming]

Warning: RL intruding.

When I was taking karate, we'd often spar, etc... One item that was interesting was when someone small would block one of my attacks (I'm 6'8" and at the time, was well built). A good block was one that guided my attack away from a serious impact and often set them up for a counter. A bad block would be trying to stop my attack and usually would wind up with them getting hit anyway.