More Suikoden HERO stuff

[Enforcer84]

Okay, I dunno how many of you have played these games but I love them and the third in the series gave me some more ammo for HERO ideas.

Magic apparently has two forms. Sorcery and Rune Use.
Sorcery is, by all appearances at this time limited to Summoning and Teleport spells.

most offensive and defensive magics are based on Runes. Its pretty easy to set up runes. they are Multipowers with 4 slots and Charges, and they are Foci. You can Buy or sell them. The thing is the better "mage" (ie Level) you are the charges you get and the more slots you can use. Runes apparently are divied up into three groups, Lesser, Greater, and True. True Runes are plot devices that grant, among other things, eternal youth to the bearer. They are also unlike the Greater and Lesser Runes in that they can only be removed by choice of the wearer or hooptie magic (ie GM Fiat) and either method generally kills the True Rune Bearer.

There are also runes that give special abilities to weapons, and non-spell abilities to characters.

Example: Boar Rune
+6DC's (KA or HA), Extra Phase, 2xEnd, Side Effects (-3 OCV/DCV) (6END)OIF Boar Rune (30 active points/12 Real Points) 0 (bought as equipment

The desired efffect being that the barer of the Boar Rune can supe up his attack at the cost of combat ability for the next phase.

non mage characters can wear up to 3 runes on their person. (Mages can have 6).

Talents:
Armor Skill (Combat Luck) 6/L
Mage (2x Number of Runes Allowed) 5 Pts

Any comments, questions? Should I be quarantined until the fever dies?

[Enforcer84]

Well, that went badly.
okay, here is my Heavy Knight Package.
<b>note:</b> the Heavy Knight Package requires that you take the knight package first.

This is a strudier version of the standard knights. They show up in the Suikiden Series all the time; examples include: Humphry, Leo, Fred, Georg Prime, Pesmurga, Lucca Blight, etc..

BTW it is easier to post it this way. Ignore the attributes and the fact that all the optional skills are paid for.



.....
I can't find it to fix it. I'll have to rewrite it? Oh well...

[UltraRob]

<Thread....Ressurect!>

Hey Enforcer, did you ever figure out a way to do those levelled Suikoden Runes in HERO? I thought they were a cool idea.

Rob

[prestidigitator]

It sounds like this is pretty close to the runic magic that Killer Shrike has on his website. I'm not going to go looking for a link right now, but I'm sure you can find one easily.

[UltraRob]

Not exactly. I know Strike's Runeforger magic system, and while it works for "lesser" runes, Suikoden uses something a little different.

A Suikoden greater (aka "super/upgraded") rune is really a special magical crystal with 4 built-in spells, each of a successively more powerful level than the last, and not all of them necessarily being just more powerful versions of the same spell. For example, the Rune of the Rambling Boar would have 4 slots, each progressively more powerful than the last:

Cost Power

9 Rune of the Rambling Boar: Multipower, 40-point reserve, (40 Active Points); all slots Independent (Can be used by anyone with Rune Use Skill; -2), Requires A Rune User Skill Roll (Active Point penalty to Skill Roll is -1 per 5 Active Points; -1), OIF (Rune; -1/2)


1u 1) Boar Rush: Running +5" (11" total) (10 Active Points); Independent (Can be used by anyone with Rune Use Skill; -2), Requires A Rune User Skill Roll (Active Point penalty to Skill Roll is -1 per 5 Active Points; -1), OIF (Rune; -1/2) 1 END


1u 2) Boar Thunder I: Hand-To-Hand Attack +4d6 (20 Active Points); Independent (Can be used by anyone with Rune Use Skill; -2), Requires A Rune User Skill Roll (Active Point penalty to Skill Roll is -1 per 5 Active Points; -1), Hand-To-Hand Attack (-1/2), OIF (Rune; -1/2) 2 END


1u 3) Hide of the Boar: Armor (10 PD/10 ED) (30 Active Points); Independent (Can be used by anyone with Rune Use Skill; -2), Requires A Rune User Skill Roll (Active Point penalty to Skill Roll is -1 per 5 Active Points; -1), OIF (Rune; -1/2), Costs Endurance (Costs END every phase -1/2) 3 END


1u 4) Boar Thunder II: Hand-To-Hand Attack +8d6 (40 Active Points); Independent (Can be used by anyone with Rune Use Skill; -2), Requires A Rune User Skill Roll (Active Point penalty to Skill Roll is -1 per 5 Active Points; -1), Hand-To-Hand Attack (-1/2), OIF (Rune; -1/2) 4 END

You can see that although it's a 40pt Multipower, only one slot is actually 40 points, the slots being 10/20/30/40 active points each. The idea in the game is that your character would get access to new rune slots as they levelled, initially only getting the most basic level of their runes. Eventually as they level up, the runes level up too, and so they get access to the more advanced attacks.

In the sample one I just made, I simulated the "level" aspect by requiring a Hard (-1 per 5 active points) Rune Use skill roll. This would mean the roll would be at -2 for the Boar Rush, but Boar Thunder II would be at a -8 to cast, most difficult unless the character is highly skilled. (Thus keeping most starting characters from casting it.) It might be possible to let the characters us Penalty Skill Levels to offset the Rune Skill penalties, simulating a character getting better with a particular rune.

A full list of Suikoden Runes and more info on that system is here.

Ever since I saw it, I thought it was an interesting magic system. As I understand it, even Wizards in that setting are just Rune Users (who can be anyone) who can access more runes than a normal person. (who maxes out at 3 runes on their person)

Rob

[Killer Shrike]

It sounds like this is pretty close to the runic magic that Killer Shrike has on his website. I'm not going to go looking for a link right now, but I'm sure you can find one easily.

Here's the link:

http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyH...eforging.shtml

and some Package Deals:
http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyH...Packages.shtml

and a sample character:
http://www.killershrike.com/SanDora/...imgerdson.HTML

[Killer Shrike]

Not exactly. I know Strike's Runeforger magic system, and while it works for "lesser" runes, Suikoden uses something a little different.

A Suikoden greater (aka "super/upgraded") rune is really a special magical crystal with 4 built-in spells, each of a successively more powerful level than the last, and not all of them necessarily being just more powerful versions of the same spell. For example, the Rune of the Rambling Boar would have 4 slots, each progressively more powerful than the last:

SNIP

Rob

My Runeforging System supports this; Runes can be represented by Multipowers in it. As an example see the sample Runic Hammer. The fact that not all the slots use the full Reserve is just a self imposed restriction; and the benefit of doing so would be that the cost of the Runic Item would be less.

[Enforcer84]

That is very similar to what I had planned.

the "Magic" Runes all had 4 spells with a 5th for combined attacks. Bought them as MP's with the slots having limitations allowing their use only for high magic skill rolls. (not only RSR, but you couldn't attempt to cast the 3rd spell until you had a magic skill of 14-)

for instance:
Thunder Rune: Multipower, 183-point reserve, (183 Active Points); OIF (Can be removed by a) High Sorcery or b) a runesmith; -1/2); all slots Requires A Magic Skill Roll (-1/4)

• Thunder Runner: Killing Attack - Ranged 1d6, Area Of Effect (6" Line; +1), Selective (+1/4) (34 Active Points); Requires A Magic Skill Roll (-1/4)
• Lightning Strike: Killing Attack - Ranged 2d6+1, +1 Increased STUN Multiplier (+1/4) (44 Active Points); Requires A Magic Skill Roll (-1/4)
• Storm Hammer: Killing Attack - Ranged 3d6, Explosion (+1/2) (67 Active Points); Requires a Magic Skill of at least 14- to attempt (-1/4), Requires A Magic Skill Roll (-1/4)
• Raging Mjolnir: Killing Attack - Ranged 4d6, Reduced Endurance (1/2 END; +1/4), +1 Increased STUN Multiplier (+1/4) (90 Active Points); Requires a Magic Skill of at least 18- to attempt (-1/2), Requires A Magic Skill Roll (-1/4)
• Storm Dragon: (Total: 183 Active Cost, 73 Real Cost) Killing Attack - Ranged 3d6, Area Of Effect (5" Any Area; +1), Selective (+1/4) (101 Active Points); Requires a Magic Skill of at least 22- to attempt (-3/4), Combined Attack (Must make a "Combining Magic" roll with a Water Rune bearer.; -1/2), Requires A Magic Skill Roll (-1/4) (Real Cost: 40) <b>plus</b> Healing BODY 3d6, BODY & STUN simultaneously (+1/2), Area Of Effect (5" Any Area; +1), Selective (+1/4) (82 Active Points); Requires a Magic Skill of at least 22- to attempt (-3/4), Combined Attack (Must make a "Combining Magic" roll with a Water Rune bearer.; -1/2), Requires A Magic Skill Roll (-1/4) (Real Cost: 33)

Bear in mind that these constructs are both OIF and can be purchased with cash and don't necissarily cost points. So...yeah. They are way powerful...I'm trying to figure out how to tone it down. Charging for it is...expensive....

[UltraRob]

How about the idea that the runes are Independant? That really brings the cost down, and they are, they'll work for anyone and can be lost forever with relative ease.

I think the idea of the minimum skill to even attempt it is a good idea, but I think making it a hard skill roll already balances that out in a way. For the higher level powers they need a really good magic skil (60 active points is a -12 roll!) to even think about it, so it produces that effect naturally. It also keeps them from mastering the runes too quickly, they have to build up the points to buy the penalty skill levels for each rune.

Both ways are equally good, though. Did you ever come up with a way to represent how the rune itself is affected by the casters emotions? Would that be an AID to the rune by the caster?

Rob

[Enforcer84]

yeah, they are independant. THanks for reminding me.
an aid or perhaps merely pushing when in stressful situations