Martial Art Style Creation

[Sicktabou]

Hi guys,


I am running a Fantasy Hero campaign and I would like to create some combat style to differentiate between melee characters (heavy fighters, light fighters, two-weapon style, weapon and shield, etc). It seems logical to use the Martial Art system to incorporate such new combat styles in my game, but strangely, there are no discussion in either the basic Hero book or the fantasy hero on how to put a value to a specific martial art manoeuver.

I assume that it’s all well explained in the ‘Ultimate Martial Artist’, but I really don’t want to purchase a new book (another $30) just for something that should have been incorporated in the basic book to start with (or at least in Fantasy hero, to describe how to create weapon style for different type of characters).

Is it possible to get a quick guideline on how to create new Martial Manoeuvers so that my new creation be balanced with everything else in my setting? I tried to copy existing martial art manoeuvers with the ‘power system’ and my success was...less that acceptable.

Thanks a lot and I really appreciate your help/suggestions.

[etherio]

I think you'll find HERO gamers here hesitant to do anything that would seem unethical or unfair to the company that is generously hosting these boards. The UMA is a very good, very useful supplement, but the material contained in it is not necessary to play the HERO System. I recommend that you buy it. It sounds like it's just what you're looking for.

[Sicktabou]

I really don't feel that the information I require worth the $30 US I would have to pay to get the UMA. Therefore I guess I'll sadly have to use something else.

I was amazed that talents where described in 'power format' for 5th edition. That's nice because one could see the consistency in the game system. I guess I hoped that Martial Manoeuvers would be as well explained. They will remain a mystery...

[Trebuchet]

I am running a Fantasy Hero campaign and I would like to create some combat style to differentiate between melee characters (heavy fighters, light fighters, two-weapon style, weapon and shield, etc). It seems logical to use the Martial Art system to incorporate such new combat styles in my game, but strangely, there are no discussion in either the basic Hero book or the fantasy hero on how to put a value to a specific martial art manoeuver.

Each individual martial maneuver in 5th Edition lists a cost. You can supplement the maneuvers by purchasing additional combat-related Skills such as Two Weapon Fighting, Fast Draw, Ambidexterity, etc.

UMA is handy and provides a number of additional maneuvers, but the vast majority of them are simply variations of the basic martial maneuvers. Notable exceptions are Shove, Flying Dodge and Passing Strike which are really more appropriate for a wuxia or superhero game than for a Fantasy Hero campaign.

PS: You're not going to improve the response here by dumping on Hero Games. The Hero System is totally playable without using optional rules such as provided by UMA. If you demand the extra flexibility provided by UMA's maneuvers, then pay for it like I did. This is a business, not a charity.

[etherio]

Hey...Steve Long's checkin' out this thread with me.

Forgive him Steve...he knows not what he does.

[Sicktabou]

PS: You're not going to improve the response here by dumping on Hero Games. The Hero System is totally playable without using optional rules such as provided by UMA. If you demand the extra flexibility provided by UMA's maneuvers, then pay for it like I did. This is a business, not a charity.

Oh, sorry. I didn't want to attack the system. I love the system and that's why I changed to it. I just wanted to know how Martial Arts where defined using the existing system.

For exemple, when they say a manoeuver provides +1 DCV, how is it explained? 5pts CSL with limitations (if yes which ones)? And what about hen a manoeuver gives -1 DCV? Explained through the side effect limitation?

But as Steve suggested, I'll have a look at the Hero designer 2. UMA is not worth the purchase for what I do, but the Hero Designer v.2 may be actually very useful...

[SuperPheemy]

I zapped both of these using only FREd. Feel free to use them as examples. As both of these packages are intended to be used with weapons no Weapon Elements are necessary.

Heavy Fighter Package
(This package assumes the fighter is wearing heavy armor and intends to do as much damage as possible.)
Martial Strike (a standard sword blow) 4 points
Offensive Strike (a mighty sword blow) 5 points
Martial Block (the parry) 4 points
WF: Common Melee Weapons (if not assumed as an Everyman Skill) 2 points
KS: Weapon Appraisal 11- 2 points
KS: Armor Appraisal 11- 2 points

Total Cost 19 points.

Note this package almost demands the character wear heavy armor for protection. Without Armor, the character will be cut to ribbons.

Light Fighter Package
(This package assumes the character is relying on speed and grace for defense rather than armor.)

Martial Strike (again, a typical thrust or slash) 4 points
Martial Dodge (The key here is movement) 4 points
Martial Disarm (If they lack their sword, they can't hurt you) 4 points
Defensive Strike (A more cautious means of engagement) 5 points
Breakfall (In case the Chandalier breaks) (9+Dex/5)- 3 points
WF: Blades 1 point
KS: Weapon Appraisal 11- 2 points
Total Cost: 23 points

You can further customise packages by replacing the listed titles with more campaign specific names. "Offensive Strike" becomes "Thunderous Blow" or something similar.

[Super Squirrel]

While I will not give out information in a book that I own, I will assist with coming up with some martial maneuvers if you want to create a thread for it and PM me what the link is.

[Trebuchet]

Oh, sorry. I didn't want to attack the system. I love the system and that's why I changed to it. I just wanted to know how Martial Arts where defined using the existing system.

But as Steve suggested, I'll have a look at the Hero designer 2. UMA is not worth the purchase for what I do, but the Hero Designer v.2 may be actually very useful...

I think you'll find Hero Designer 2 well worth the money. With HD2, FREd, and the appropriate genre book you're in business as a GM. Hero Designer takes away all the headaches of designing new characters and NPCs. It's worth every penny.

Hero Games not wanting to give away free what they sell to stay in business is not unreasonable. As for the basis for the martial maneuvers, why sweat that? Do you worry about the basis for the standard combat maneuvers?

[Sicktabou]

One of the thing I want to create is a special fighting style to reprensent the natural two-weapon fighting of Ettins. I klnow, it looks odd, but one of my player wants to play an ettin and I seriously it will be funny as hell to see him argue with himself, so I am up for the challenge (as a gm).

This said, I want to create new 'moves' to simulate the fact that ettins are amazing natural two-weapon fighters. To do so, I'll have to create new manoeuvers. For exemple:

The Side Smash
The ettin attacks with one weapon from each side of the target causing crushing damage (maybe +1 or 2 DC) but more importantly forcing the air out of the target in the porcess (maybe simulated with a +1 Stun Multiplier).

Anyway, for such type of attack, am I better to proceed with the martial arts manoeuvers rules or should I use 'powers'? Maybe the whole Ettin Two-Weapon Fighting Style could me a multipower?

[Super Squirrel]

For that Ettin technique you could do a linked NND attack. I don't have UMA here on me to give you a martial maneuver idea but I'll make sure to grab it from the house during lunch.

[Sicktabou]

Thanks a lot! really appreciated...

[SuperPheemy]

For the more fantastic martial art techniques, you're much better served building it as a power. I'd call the Ettin Side Smash an Offensive Strike (because that gives an extra 4DC to the attack), and realize that when a giant unloads with an attack that gets an extra 4DC, the target will hurt, bad.

The trick lies within the description. Don't tell your players that the Ettin makes an Offensive Strike, instead use the description posted above.

Let's assume for the sake of example that the Ettin has a 40 Strength. (I hink he's in MM&M or HSB, but I don't have those books handy right now). Give him a pair of Great Clubs (which he can use one handed because, well he's an Ettin) and the "Ettin Go Smash" martial art package with Offensive Strike.

The hapless target then gets whomped with 6d6N for the club + 6d6 for the Ettin's strength (he can only double the weapon's base damage with strength) and +4d6 for the offensive strike. That's a total of 16d6 Normal, and enough to flatten almost anyone. (average around 56 STUN and 16 BODY) The -2 OCV penalty does a good job of simulating the difficulty of smashing someone in such a manner, and the +1 DCV can be explained as the difficulty with closing on an Ettin swinging tree trunks in front of him.

For the record, a 16d6 attack will make your average 350 point superhero brick sit up and take notice.

[ghost-angel]

On the other hand .. not sure why you feel it has to be a "martial maneuver" ... make it a power.

Two Weapon Smash:
+3d6 Hand Attack, Only when used in a Multi-Power Attack (-1/2)
[15 Active Points, 7 Real Points]

a 2D6 version is 10 AP, 5 RP.

or some such. The special effect is taking two clubs and smashing them into a target from each side. Knocking the wind out of someone is usually an effect of Con Stunning them. In a Hero game, when you add in the damage from both clubs, str and the hand attack chances are you will manage to exceed their CON.

[Hyper-Man]

Use of Powers vs. Skills is a question that should be asked if this is a heroic or normal characteristic maximum campaign.