DARK CHAMPIONS: What Do *You* Want To See?

[Steve Long]

OK, folx, since I'm about to start working on the new Dark Champions genre book, it's time for yet another "what do you want to see?" threads.

Before I get started (see next thread), I'm going to make a couple of suggestions that I hope will keep the thread focused and make it as useful as possible to me.

First, please read the posted outline. If I've already mentioned something in the outline, you don't need to suggest that I include it in the book.

Second, please remember that despite the title*, Dark Champions is not a supplement for Champions -- it's a genre book for modern-day action-adventure, ranging from costumed vigilante crimefighters (like Batman and the Punisher), to spies, to cops, to military action, to X-Files type stuff, and more. Except for the usual "mixing genres" section, it's not going to have any extensive discussion of low-powered superheroes or anything like that. (But of course, virtually everything in the book is very useful for any Champions game taking place in the modern day.) Keeping that in mind will help keep your comments focused on the proper subjects.

So, on to the outline!


*: We're keeping the title "Dark Champions" for a whole bunch of reasons, and I have no intention of changing it. I think we'd all appreciate it if no one wasted any time or bandwidth on the subject; that proverbial dead horse has already been proverbially well-beaten.

[Steve Long]

OK, here's the rough outline for the book, to give you an idea of what I already plan to include -- no need to ask for it if it's already on the list.

CHAPTER ONE -- THE GENRE: What fits within the DC genre; mixing DC and other genres (Champions, FH, SH, and so on); DC and metagenres (horror, comedy, etc.); genre "bits."

CHAPTER TWO -- CHARACTER CREATION: An enormous slew of Package Deals (law enforcement, military, espionage, and more); notes on various game elements (Skills, Powers, etc.); a big section of "Super-Skills" (aka "Skill tricks"; what the original DC calls "non-powered powers"); optional "Resource Points" rules for managing characters' equipment and other resources.

CHAPTER THREE -- FORENSICS: A basic primer on criminalistics and forensic pathology.

CHAPTER FOUR -- COMBAT AND ADVENTURING: Expanded and optional rules for modern-day combat.

CHAPTER FIVE -- WEAPONS: Firearms and ammunition (including extensive rules on how to modify guns to improve their performance); other types of weapons. In addition to "how to create your own" rules, this chapter will have extensive lists of statted-out weapons (please see the "We're Gonna Need Guns" thread for further discussion of this subject).

CHAPTER SIX -- EQUIPMENT: All non-weapon gear -- body armor, recon gear, commo gear, bugs and wiretaps, computers, you name it.

CHAPTER SEVEN -- THE ENEMY: Basic information on crime (organized and not), terrorism, enemy intel, and so on. This chapter is not going to be extensive or thorough, because I have so much information on this particular subject that I can write a whole book about it (The Underworld Sourcebook, slated for 2005) -- it's just going to provide an overview to get ya started.

CHAPTER EIGHT -- GMing: A chapter of advice, tips, suggestions, and resources for DC GMs.

CHAPTER NINE -- NPCs: Five sample PCs and five sample bad guys.


So, what do you wanna see in the book?

[keithcurtis]

I'd like the Resource Pool rules to be very optional indeed. I've always thought that felt kludgy. If the GM intends to mix equipment and superpowers, perhaps come up with a list of GM'ing advice on how handle it without resorting to point fiddling. After all, using equipment should be the norm in this type of campaign. Even Aunt May can pick up and use Ben's old service revolver. You shouldn't have to pay points for the ability to do it.
Maybe those who use equipment should get less XP?

Keith "Humble Suggester" Curtis

[Chris Bloxham]

The forensics chapter has peaked my interest. How will it be laid out - facts and "real world info" V's rules?

The chapter summary looks great Steve, this is the product line I have personally been waiting for.

[SuperPheemy]

I'd like to see some treatment on how Law Enforcement (the Super SWAT teams I mentioned in your "Guns" thread) evolves to deal with a Dark Champions universe. Things like how such a unit is organized, where they draw personnel from (for example, not only woud a Super SWAT have Police Recurits, but it would bring volunteers from Fire Departments, and Paramedics as well.)

Oh, and a teaser on Criminal Insanity. How a twisted mind gets twisted. Obsessions, manias, etc... along with treatments, causes, and evolutions. You could almost do an entire sourcebook on that one (you didn't really need those last three hours of each day for sleep anyway...)

[bafzoul]

I would like to see optional rules for lowering or raising the effectiveness of guns in the game

[Mutant for Hire]

It may be buried in there but make sure you cover Heroic versus Superheroic and I've even heard of various in-between states. You should focus on how to handle money in a DC campaign, since street level campaigns can have that as a serious issue.

Also you need to cover how to purchase equipment of varying legality and availability. Cover the 'black market' and other such things as well. There's a reason for having Perks such as Contacts (dealers of all sorts of stuff). You could practically devote a whole chapter to contacts in the DC campaign and how to use them as well.

[Vanguard00]

In the description under the "future releases", you mention "technothrillers" and "special forces". Traditionally Dark Champions has focused on the law enforcement and vigilante side of things. While I'm totally copacetic with that, I wouldn't mind a tad more space given over to military and agency-style stuff. Everything from "Stargate"-style military to "Alias"-style agencies has such potential, but it rarely gets anything more than a brief nod. This would be a great book for something along those lines.

Oh, and I'm not sure what "technothrillers" entails, but I'm sure it'll be cool.

[Toadmaster]

To begin with, take a look at Dark Champions, Eye for an Eye, Danger International and Here there be Tigers, then make none of the good stuff gets left out.

While vehicles are covered in TUV I would suggest a little time be spent on them anyway since they can be such a large part of genre. Handling special features (armor, oil slicks etc), car chases, legal issues, driving while under the influence of truth serum etc. Not so much how to make them but considerations of their use.

While lists of guns are always nice lets not forget the old standby melee weapons, stun guns, switch blades, brass knuckles, nail studded baseball bats etc. I'd like to see a nice selection of these included. Seems like an area that gets left out of many modern games.

I hope a little time will be given to gritty post apocalypse like Mad Max, Twilight 2000 or the comic Scout. Its a large genre and while Star HERO covered some already I think more can be said, leave the wild futuristic stuff (Gamma World, The Matrix) to StarHERO and the crumbling vestages of civilaization to DC.

I also hope that more time will be spent on the military angle, previous versions were definately focused on law enforcement and spy stuff, a chapter on running military campaigns would be great, in particular ranks and awards, types of units, types of missions and how to run them. Preferably this will get a subgenre book of its own but I'd like to see at least enough to get campaigns started until such a book exists.

I'm sure I will think of more but its a start. Can't wait to see it, I know it will be great, the originals were and so far all the new ones are better.

[BobGreenwade]

Like Chris, I'll be very interested in seeing what you're doing with the forensics chapter. I still have most of the notes I've made on the topic, and I could also send you something I did in a recent Haymaker on a new "Interviewing" Skill (for getting information out of a willing subject -- even willing subjects don't have perfect memory).

I'm also looking forward very much to the "Super-Skills" section. I'd like to see it organized by base Skill rather than by Power, though; that would make it easier to build the "super-interrogator," "super-climber," "super-persuador," "super-lockpicker," or whatever.

On cross-genre stuff, I think you'd be right to limit the explicit text to Chapter One, but please keep the general concept in mind as you put together Chapters Two, Four, and Eight. While my campaign is set in the Terran Empire, for example, it's as much DC as SH.

I'll check out the other threads before going much into anything else.

[pinecone]

Please include a section on genera mixing...weirdly, I seem to mix in both Fantasy and Horror into what should be a more or less realistic series....

[Peregrine]

A broader range of point totals and 'power levels' among characters built under Heroic parameters than that given in FRED. While some of this will be handled in The Ultimate Skill, many characters of the genre are nearly (if not fully) polymathic in depth and breadth of ability. (Independent of 'earned experience'; how many game campaigns contain as many stories/adventures as some of the serial novel characters have had? If you start 'small', you'll never get 'large' over the course of the average game campaign, and you won't accurately model the genre you're claiming to be emulating.)

[Steve Long]

The forensics chapter has peaked my interest. How will it be laid out - facts and "real world info" V's rules?

Mostly it's a mix of both. There's a real-world facts discussion of a particular topic (say, arson/explosion investigation, or lacerations, or determining time of death via forensic entomology), usually followed by (or intermingled with) relevant rules. For example, in the forensic entomology section, there might be a positive modifier for Forensic Medicine for doing something relatively simple (like collecting the bugs and analyzing their life stages), and a negative modifier for something complex (like determining from maggots whether the deceased was a cocaine user).

[Metaphysician]

The super skill sections sounds really interesting.

Will the example characters all be from the Hudson City setting??

[Toadmaster]

I'd also like to see the big skills of the genre get more detail for use, stealth, streetwise, lockpicking, bribery etc.

I'd like to see parachutes get more detail, and an advanced parachuting TF for things such as HALO and HAHO jumps. (Here there be Tigers has a great section on this).

Also some more on the environment and its effects on skills, picking a lock in the dark, climbing a drain pipe during a down pour, trying to sneak through a bubble wrap factory etc.

I like what you are describing for the Forensics, I wasn't to hot on it at first since I already have several games with pretty detailed information on the subject but most are just factual blurbs with little how to use in game, it sounds like you are going to integrate facts with actually using it in game, CSI HERO anyone?