Gem/Focus Magic System

[C_Zeree]

Not wanting to take over a perfectly good Final Fantasy thread, but wanting to start/continue talking about gem magic I will endeavor to start this new thread.

I believe I can say it is the goal of Zoth and me (err...myself I can't remember propper grammar), to create an effective magic system that revolves around gems, or at least a system that is focus heavy. I will present my system, dubbed Channeling, because the mage channels mystic energy into the focus to be used later. It is a name I am not to overjoyed with, since it is simplistic, but I have not stumbled upon anything better.

I would appreciate any comments on my system, perhaps an idea for a better name. Or people to just to point out feasibility in game, since I have not play tested anything.

First the skill behind the magic:

CHANNELING
(Channeling, Interaction/Intellect/Willpower, 9+(PRE or INT or EGO/5), 3/2, Any)

The differing primary characteristic for the skill represents the differing philosophies of the magical art. Animist channelers usually treat channeling as an interactive skill, calling upon spirits to aid them by bestowing some of their might upon a prepared token. Alchemic chanellers view the process as a science, and they have large, well stocked labs. Gathering the properly attuned components and following proper formulae and processes will channel the magic they seek into the prepared vessel. Alternatively, either philosophy could view channeling as a contest of willpower. The animist becomes a binder, matching will against the spirit they wish to bind to their fetish. The alchemist becomes a thalmaturge, using formulae and logic to determine a loophole in reality’s design, eventually warping the weave enough to produce their result.

Uses of the Skill

Empowering:
While there are many philosophies, the result is the same: the creation of an item empowered with magic. Channelers create two different magical objects in this manner, Shaping Stones and Spell Seeds. Shaping stones are kin to magical items like wands or scrolls, vessel to a particular spell, but they allow any mage to cast the magic held within using their own mystic reserves, not depending on charges that will eventually run out. Spell seeds are reserves of mystical energy, used to power either a mage’s known spells, or spells stored within shaping stones.

The method of creation does differ for the separate philosophies. Animists prefer to use fetishes and tokens in harmony with the spirits they hope to call. Thus, when calling upon Raven the channeler would prepare a feather token, or if they were asking for a blessing from Bear they would use a claw or a carved figurine of a bear. These tokens must be prepared before the ritual is to take place. Preparation should take a minimum of 1 hour per 5 Active Points in the Power to be bound to the fetish. This time represents the effort necessary to prepare the item in its final form, ritual cleansing, and preparing a rôchan for the ritual. The ritual to actually call the spirit into the prepared fetish takes only 1 hour per 20 Active Points in the Power. During this, the mage actually calls the spirit to him and communes with it. The ritual culminates with the spirit’s final decision, the mage makes a channeling check with a penalty of -1 per 10 Active Points in the Power, as well as any modifiers the GM sees fit (extra time spent and personally gathered all the materials should provide a bonus). The cost of all of this is quite variable, as it is very difficult to put a price on the effort of the mage that gathered the items.

Scientific channeling follows a far more rigid path. Almost all of their spell seeds and shaping stones are actually precious and semiprecious gems, or worked stone. The gems could be set in further ornamentation, but it s not a requirement. The value of the piece to be empowered must be, at least, 20 gold per 10 Active Points in the Power. Alchemic channelers need a fully stocked lab filled with components aligned to the nature of the spell they wish to place in the stone. It would be far better if they had materials from an aligned rôchan, this should not be necessary, but it may provide a bonus. The act of empowerment takes 1 hour per 10 Active Points in the Power, and this is the time that must be spent hard at work in the lab, the only breaks being for food and mandatory rest. Once the time is complete, the mage makes a channeling check with a penalty of -1 per 10 Active Points in the Power, modified as the GM sees fit. Thalmaturgic channelers are similar to their brothers, but they require a full library of philosophic and magical lore. They spend the required time pouring over tomes, researching enigmatic, mystical trains of thought.

Requirements for Empowering:

Animism
Aligned token/fetish
1 hr per 5 Active Points, preparation time
1 hr per 20 Active Points, ritual time
-1 penalty per 10 Active Points

Science
20 gold per 10 Active Points, material
Full alchemist’s lab/complete library
1 hr per 10 Active Points, creation time
-1 penalty per 10 Active Points

Reults:

Shaping Stone
Power (Pick your flavor)
Focus (OAF/OIF)
Independent (For my “World” only, not a necessary Lim, but I have written about trade and quests to find powerful, lost shaping stones)
RSR (Channeling, -1 penalty per 10 Active Points in Power)
2xEND Cost (Channeling is inherently taxing)
Powered by Characters END or END Reserve

Spell Seed
END Reserve (Can be aligned to a specific element or power type)
REC (Bought with slower recovery REC/5 mins)
Focus (OAF/OIF)
Independent
RSR (Only when powering spells personally known by the mage, same penalties as above, only worth -1/4 Lim)

That’s it for tonight. I have a more thorough write up on Spell Seeds and Shaping Stones, but that’s for later. I provided this as bait , and because it felt like it needed some closure.

Enjoy the eve

C_Zeree

[Zoth]

Nice system C_Zeree here is my system so far.

Managen Gem Magic System

1.) Most spells require the use of manage gems. Manage gems are specially made gems that are enchanted so that the user can channel mana into a spell.
2.) It takes skill in order to properly use a manage gem.
3.) The active point maximum for a spell is determine by the quality of the gem (manage gem quality is based on the quality of the gem used in the enchantment). The unique characteristics of the gem used to make the managen will determines what spells the managen has (kind of a random thing).
4.) The more powerful type of managen allows a mage to attempt to absorb the managen giving the mage the ability to cast the spells the managen had without any managen up to the active point maximum the managen had (of course the PC will have buy off the limitation and managen that can be absorb will be very rare)
5.) A few spells don’t require gems in order to cast they are what led to the development of gem magic. Two of these spells are:
Managen Enchantment and Combined Managen. (Might add Absorb Managen, not sure if I want absorption to be a spell or not).
6.) Mana level determines the amount of mana a mage can recover in a given day.

Here is what I got so far.
Managen power pool

Multipower/flexible slots: RSR (x), Concentration ½ DCV (-1/4), Extra Time (x maybe), Gestures – both hands (-1/2), Linked to Endurance Reserve: Slow Recovery (x per x time), Amount recovered based on mana level (have the base recovery as high mana level and lower the amount of recovery as the mana levels lowers).

Spell Requirements:
Must cost endurance
Usually has Visible Effect- sparkling multicolored lighted effects.
OAF
Active point maximum based on OAF type.

Managen Enchantment Spell:
This spell does not have the limitation OAF or Active point maximum based on OAF. This spell enchants normal gems that have been crafted a certain way
Into managen. Size and quality determines the Active point maximum that I spell can be cast with the gem. The type of gem and its unique characteristics (flaws & shape) determines what spell will be able to be caste with the gem. Each spell might have its own Active point maximum.
(Need game statistics)

Combined Managen Spell:
This spell does not have the limitation OAF or Active point maximum based on OAF. This spell lets the caster combine two managen of the same gem type into one managen that has the spells both managen had. The Active point maximum of the new gem will be the greater of the two.
(Need game statistics)

Absorb Managen:
Ability to absorb a managen gem into ones spirit, thereby gaining the ability to cast that spell without a managen gem.
Basically the gem is used up and the player’s character pays the difference between the cost of the spell with the OAF and the spell without the OAF.
(Need more game statistics)

Please excuse any typing and grammar errors

[Markdoc]

Very nice system! It's one of the few I can imagine myself using - high praise from me.

A couple of questions: as I understand it, all spells are essentially items and independant.

Do you envisage them as being usable by anyone, or would you need another skill to use the powers?

If so, would you let players buy that skill, or would it only come as a part of a package deal "Before you can learn to summon Great Wolf Spirit, you must know the names and mighty deeds of all the shamans of the wolf clan!"

In short - are magic users a defined class, or can you have "dabblers" in magic - or is magic something everyone uses?

I can see cool possibilities for any one of these options, but since the mage characters have to pay points to make new items, it would seem to disadvantage them if barbarian swordswinger Grod the mighty can use them too.

cheers, Mark

[Thag13]

This is a great thread.

You two should contact Dave Mattingly at Digital Hero and work this up as a article.


I read a lot of good stuff here, but rarely do I actully save the post with the intention of using some thing in an excisting game.

This will dovetail nicely with my Tunfaire game where silver is used as a magic source.

Great going gang....

[Zoth]

Ok now that I’m awake I see how shaping stones work
Basically they are kind of like magic items, the mage will find them and he powers them and using them takes skill. The problem I see is that the only thing the character is paying for is the channeling skill.

This is kind how I first imagine my system in away. Each gem would have a spell list and as you learned the lower spells you could then start learning the deeper mysteries of the gem. This would be how it works in R. A. Salvatores Demonwars Saga.

May be there are different types if magic gems each with there own spell list and each type would have it own skill. This might be how I would set my system up.

Exp.

White Managen:
X point Multipower (flexible slots)
Focus (OIF)
Independent
Concentration ½ DCV
Gestures – both hands
Linked to X point Endurance Reserve:
Slow Recovery (x per x time)
Amount recovered based on mana level
Healing Spell: Healing , Visible Effect- sparkling multicolored lighted effects,
RSR (Channeling White Managen –x per x AP).
Cure Disease
est.
Each spell would have it own amount of RSR penalty and the more powerful the spell the more the penalty. Some Managen might need the difficult/very difficult focus limitation to reflect that fact that they are harder to find/make.

[Zoth]

Originally posted by Thag13
This is a great thread.
You two should contact Dave Mattingly at Digital Hero and work this up as a article.

we might could help developed a heavy focus magic system guide, but the managen system I plan on publishing on a web sight along with my game world.

I might start posting parts of my game world here for reviewing/comments.
My game world is called Telsendalay and it’s inspired by final fantasy. It is a fantasy world that has magitek, technology powered by managen. The down sided to using managen to power devices is that uses magic in a harsh way and that cause the mana level to drop over time.

[C_Zeree]

Originally posted by Thag13
This is a great thread.
You two should contact Dave Mattingly at Digital Hero and work this up as a article.

Originally posted by Zoth
we might could help developed a heavy focus magic system guide, but the managen system I plan on publishing on a web sight along with my game world.

I was actually considering it. I was in the process of writing it up as a possible DH entry when the whole FF thread started.

I will have more thought come lunch when I can take a break.

[C_Zeree]

Great Stuff!!

Originally posted by Zoth
Managen Gem Magic System

1.) Most spells require the use of manage gems. Manage gems are specially made gems that are enchanted so that the user can channel mana into a spell.
2.) It takes skill in order to properly use a manage gem.

I believe we are on the same track.

Originally posted by Markdoc
Do you envisage them as being usable by anyone, or would you need another skill to use the powers?

Only those trained in Channeling, those that take the skill in my world may Channel, and according to Zoth you also need "skill", I assume spending CP for it in his system. I have thought about a Magic/Channeling "Perk" to keep anyone from casting magic, on top of the necessary skill, but I have not made a final decision (Possibly only a 3 Point Perk, maybe 5, could only be taken if character has “magic” perk). This would represent the spark. And goodness knows I don’t want some lousy barbarian warrior using the awesome power of channeling.

3.) The active point maximum for a spell is determine by the quality of the gem (manage gem quality is based on the quality of the gem used in the enchantment). The unique characteristics of the gem used to make the managen will determines what spells the managen has (kind of a random thing).

When it comes to the more scientific magi, I use a New Age association or personal feelings for the magic most appropriate for gem. Hemitie has ties to healing properties, onyx & obsidian is tied to darkness, fire, confusion, and the like. Also as I said aligned tokens and fetishes help the animistic channeler.

My system has a background that describes, rôchan, magical wellsprings, that instill an area with magical essence. This essence has “flavors” depending on the area. Objects taken from this area with the particular magical influence help magi create similarly aligned shaping stones.

Managen Enchantment Spell & Combined Managen Spell
I think these would be better as a skill: Control Managen. The ideas seem very similar to my Channeling skill. It doesn’t need to be a 3/2 skill, could be a 5/3 if want to prevent outsiders from using it.

For Enchantment, I like the idea of each gem having a cap of AP, or actually each Spell have a necessary value of Gem to be used.

Combining: Never thought about this, but this is a cool idea. The gem becomes a MP instead of a focus?

Absorbing: I have my own “learning” system for acquiring the powers held in a shaping stone. It is not fleshed out yet, but it basically involves, as you said, either buying of the Lims, or buying the power outright if they did not create the gem. There would be a skill roll required at the time of XP expenditure? Think we should work on this one.

I don’t know if I understand your MP…is it an MP or a VPP? Do you mean Linked as a Lim or just fueled from a END reserve? Because I don’t think you could used the Linked as a Lim in this case.

I like the idea of varying REC depending on the manna present.

Spell Requirements wise: Anything that costs END has a visible effect, you can’t use the Visible Lim on top of that. You might be able to use a “Very Flashy Visible” Lim…not sure, others opinions? If you are talking about mental powers the regular Visible is a good Lim.

Nice stuff Zoth , we have a good thing here!
Once I get home I will post the better mechanics for using Channeling.

[C_Zeree]

Originally posted by Zoth
Basically they are kind of like magic items, the mage will find them and he powers them and using them takes skill. The problem I see is that the only thing the character is paying for is the channeling skill.

This is how it works, and I can see this could be a problem...See above for my other coments, and I still have to fidget with my game mechanics. Actually I have the Channeler having to pay for a VPP that he then places the shaping stones into. So only those with the Channeling skill and those that laid down the points for the VPP can Channel. Braxit the Brick can't pick up a shaping stone and use it unless he pays the points. Using the shaping stones as an item, like a sword would be far too abusive. What do other people think?

May be there are different types if magic gems each with there own spell list and each type would have it own skill. This might be how I would set my system up.

I lik your idea and example, something to mull over.

[C_Zeree]

My further ideas on channeling continue. Here unfolds how magi use channeling in game, and the rules behind using channeling powers.

IN GAME USE

Channeling Practice:
Channelers guard the knowledge of their trade as every other mage does. Shamans and binders are particular about their apprentices, choosing only from those they see have the “gift.” Alchemists and thalmaturges’ devise numerous tests of logic and method, to glean prospective from the chaff. Only those instructed in the art of channeling may use their devices, and only those strong enough in the art may devise their own.

Spiritual channelers depend more upon their shaping stones, even though they usually take the form of fetishes or tokens. They have few memorized spells, only those most important to them, and they keep their abodes decorated with the numerous tokens they devise. The learned, more scientific, channelers use their shaping stones to augment their memorized repertoire. They find it useful to place difficult spells, or rarely used spells, within the stones allowing them to diversify, but still come through when necessary. For the first philosophy channeling is a key to harmony with nature, while the second find it an interesting new “science,” and at worst a diverting hobby.

A channeler uses a shaping stone or a spell seed by fueling the spell held within and casting it as they cast other spells they know. Either spell seeds or the characters own mystical reserves fuel the spell. Casting from a shaping stone has the limitations as any other spell would, save instead of making a “magic” roll to cast the spell the channeler makes a channeling role. The normal penalty of -1 per 10 Active Points in the Power, applies to roll involving shaping stones.

Shaping stones are usually independent, permanent magical artifacts, but only usable by the magi that have sufficient talent in the art of channeling. Virtual Power Pools fit this format best, as it can signify both overall magical power through the Active Points, and allow a mage to keep a varied collection of shaping stones. This “collection” increases a mage’s chance of effectiveness in a clinch. They keep useful stones at the ready, but other, possibly more powerful or only valuable in certain circumstances, tucked away, retrievable from a belt or pouch when necessary. Spell Seeds are a touchier subject as they too could fit into a VPP of their own, but it is a special power. GM’s could limit a character to one or two seeds to aid their characters, and have them bought outright, as they tend to be cheaper than shaping stones. Virtual Power Pools keep channeling a selective art, because only those willing to give up Character Points to a Channeling Pool will be able to use shaping stones.

Alternatively, the GM could treat everything as they do magical items & equipment. Allowing a mage to swap out and use shaping stones and spell seeds as a fighter might grab a different weapon or don a new helmet. This is practice should be watched as it could get out of hand very easily if a channeler has found all of their stones, and not had to design any themselves. If this is the case the Channeler has to pay nothing, but the skill to use the shaping stone, and there is little to stop anyone from picking up a shaping stone and using them.

MECHANICS
<b><i>Channeling: </i></b>VPP (Magic)
Increased Endurance Cost (2x END; -1/2)
RSR: Channeling (-1/2)
Only Owned Shaping Stones (Limited; -1/2)
Concentration (1/2 DCV; -1/4)
Gestures (-1/4)
Incantations (-1/4)

<b><i>Shaping Stone: </i></b>
Pick Your Power w/Advantages
Power Can Draw END From Character or END Reserve (+1/4)
OIF or OAF (-1/2 or -1)
Independent (-2)
Common VPP Lims (-1 3/4)

<b><i>Spell Seed: </i></b>Endurance Reserve (XX END, X REC)
OIF or OAF (-1/2 or -1)
Independent (-2)
RSR: Channeling, When Powering Memorized Magic (-1/4)
REC:
Slow Recovery (5 Minutes; -1)

Thoughts are always welcome

[Zoth]

My refined Mangen ideas

X Managen
X Point Multipower (Flexible slots)
Must use Mana Pool Endurance Reserve
Focu (OIF) (-1)
Independent (-2)
Concentration ½ DCV ()
Gestures – both hands ()
M X Spell: X Power, Must have a Visible Effect - sparkling multicolored lighted effects surrounds the managen and follows the casters gestures. ,
RSR (Channeling X Managen –x per x AP). , Must cost END.

Mana Pool
X Point Endurance Reserve ,
Slow Recovery (x per x time)
Amount recovered based on mana level

Magitek Device/Engine
X Powers
Focus – Managen (OAF or OIF?)
Side Effects , X amount of cumulative hours of use will reduce focus multipower by one active point, Continuous use of device over time will contribute to the lowering of the mana level in the area.

Magic Abilities

Managen Enchantment
Major Transform – Gem into managen. ,
Limited Target (-1) - specially crafted gem.
Extra Time
Concentration (Character is totally unaware) (-1/2)
RSR

This ability enchants normal gems that have been crafted a certain way
Into managen. Size and quality determines the Active point maximum that I spell can be cast with the gem. The type of gem and its unique characteristics (flaws & shape) determines what spell will be able to be caste with the gem.

Combined Managen
Major Transform – Combine two managen into one managen containing the best
features of both managen, or absorb one managen to combine one if it’s spells with another managen and one of that managen’s spell to produce a new spell in that managen.
Limited Target (-1) – Managen,
Extra Time
Concentration (Character is totally unaware) (-1/2)
RSR

This ability lets the caster combine two managen of the same gem type into one managen that has the spells both managen had. The Active point maximum of the new gem will be the greater of the two. This ability can also be use to absorb one managen into another managen combining the effects of one spell form the absorbed managen with one spell form the absorbing managen to produce a new spell in the absorbing managen replacing the existing spell. Oouff

Now I just need to fill in some of the numbers and details.

Thoughts welcomed as well

So far what I see form Channeling part II looks kelw, when I have some time I will give some input

[C_Zeree]

Now I see what you mean for the spells Magagen Enchantment & Combine. I never gave thought to what spell would be required for creating shaping stones. Just thought it would be off screen, character spent some points, poof. The spells are good though, I could definatly "borrow" some good ideas (all of it).

[Zoth]

say on the Magitek Device/Engine
Focus – Managen
would that be OAF or OIF
still kind of new to the hero system

[C_Zeree]

Originally posted by Zoth
say on the Magitek Device/Engine
Focus – Managen
would that be OAF or OIF
still kind of new to the hero system

If it is built into the system, non grabable, then its OIF.
If it is sitting on the "front" of the Magitech and someone could shoot it off or run by and pluck it out it would be OAF.
My guess is, as most things that involve armor, it would be OIF.

[Zoth]

In that case Magitek Device/Engine would be an OIF because it would be kind like taking out the batteries. Managen on the other hand when used to cast spells would be an OAF as it could possibly be grabbed form the casters hands