Killing Charachters/Villians in your games. Do you do it?

[DarkClaw]

Just wanted to get some feedback from other players to find out if they have killed player characters in their games. Do you allow your heroes to kill the villians? If they do what are the consequences, are there any? Give me some examples. I'm starting a new game based off of the characters me and my group made in the PC game City of Heroes. The heroes in Paragon City don't kill they apprehend the villians. But I tend to try and be a more realistic gamemaster and allow the characters to act as they feel they would really act to certin situation, which may include killing (in self defense of course). So let me know your thoughts.

[Hermit]

Not often. I try to arrange it so PC deaths IF they come, are never meaningless and always give a chance for noble sacrifice etc. It happens more among NPC heroes than PC ones (Much like comic books, the 'guest stars' are the ones who are more likely to bite it).

Killing villains, I go with the 0 pt "Reluctant to kill" attitude among heroes, and let the players know it. Most take a true CvK anyways, so it's not intentional when it does happen. Heck, when a villain goes down bleeding (doesn't happen too often) and looks bad, at least one of them usually does their best to save the guy and is very worried

That said, there have been exceptions. Normally the villain brings it on himself, you know, blows himself up with the now broken device the heroes sabatoged, or fall ranting down a volcano. Of course, for super villains, death (or more accurately apparent death) is not always a careeer ending situation.

I've even had one murderous villain go to stronghold, get on trial, and get the death penality. The PCs have to believe that there are SOMEtimes stronghold isn't a revolving door, or it just becomes an excercise in frustration and futility for them.

[Blue]

Killing Heroes: Hasn't happened. I mean it's actually hard to find a circumstance under which a hero would be killed unless they are doing something insane. But if they did do something awesome and heroic, absolutely I'd go with it.

Killing Villains: That's called murder. There are laws against such things. You're heroes. Uphold the law. I'd expect the others to haul in anyone who did that; And what's more--most of them actually would without any prompting from me.

I had one agent bleed to death. Let me tell you, that tiny fact will come back to bite them. Not to be spiteful--rather because I can think of an interesting plot device. [cackles maniacally]

[Fedifensor]

JDo you allow your heroes to kill the villians? If they do what are the consequences, are there any? Give me some examples.

Well, I'm hoping that the following paragraph from my Campaign Introduction will make players think twice before killing a supervillain:

"The first action taken against superhumans (called Primes in a leaked government report) was the sentencing of Hiroshima in absentia. A few months later, after he was defeated, he was taken to a secret government lab in the Nevada desert where his death sentence would be carried out. As he died, the nuclear energy in his cells was released to catastrophic effect. Though fallout was minimal, the explosion could be seen from orbit. After this tragedy, Congress passed a law banning the use of the death penalty against superpowered individuals unless it could be proven beyond a reasonable doubt that their death would not be a hazard to others."

I prefer a low superhuman death rate in my campaign. For the same reason that the government doesn't execute supervilllains, the villains are reluctant to kill superheroes (at least, not while they're standing next to the hero). That's why deathtraps are popular - if the hero blows up, you're well away from the blast site when it occurs.

[Doug McCrae]

A few months later, after he was defeated, he was taken to a secret government lab in the Nevada desert where his death sentence would be carried out. As he died, the nuclear energy in his cells was released to catastrophic effect. Though fallout was minimal, the explosion could be seen from orbit.

That's a new one. Don't kill people...

Because they might explode.

[DarkClaw]

I tend to give my players as many chances to stay alive as possible, but sometimes the just don't take a hint. As far as them killing the bad guys I let them decide. If they are after a villian who has just destroyed a bridge with hundreds of people on it and they manage to track him down they may not be very nice to him. Usually the characters with the CvK will try and calm the hot heads in the group and prevent them from doing this but sometimes they don't arrive in time and the villian goes down for the count. I look at it as sometimes when dealing with supervillians they don't quite fit into normal justice. If a guy is able to use a radiation type power and walk in to a mall and kill people nine chances out of ten he isn't worth trying to lock up in jail.There powers make them in most cases a gobal threat. even though Stronhold is a nice idea it is like many real like prisons, just how many supervillians can you hold before you have no more room? For example do you think you can rehabilitate Dr. Destroyer or Mechannon? These two should be a destroy on site type situation. Keep the thoughts and ideas coming.

[Blue Jogger]

In our games, characters almost never get killed. The two times were A) a character lost his hand and decided that death was the only way to regain honor (player wanted a new character) and B) Birdwoman, who took x2 BODY from Killing Attacks and x2 BODY from Hand to Hand Attacks was hit with a HKA claw attack from Werecat and took something like 56 BODY after defenses. My character did the classic fell to the knees, "NOOOOOO!!!!!"

The person who was playing the birdwoman realized that this character was only temporary and really was suppose to take x4 from claw attacks.

As for villians, a certain werecat was almost destroyed by a very distraught energy projector/brick that wasn't keeping his inner demon in check. Luckily, the other heroes, over the radio, talked him down.

A demon was dispatched back to Hell when it was decided that this wasn't exactly murder. In that combat, my demonic hero "got his head blown off" but regenerated (took 15 BODY, was at -5 BODY) quickly.

A vampire was destroyed by a hero using a spell that summoned pure sunlight.

A sentient human-sized T-rex was knocked deep into unconscious (and possibly death) and then sank into the ocean depths. It didn't need food, water or air, but it was assumed that he needed sunlight to work his metabolism (via photosynthesis). That was the end of the campaign.

[Lord Mhoram]

In my last game, it was a fairly standard "reluctance to kill" game, but I set up one team to be an both an escalating threat to the world, and a really nasty and obscene team in terms of lethality and morals, that the best thing to do was to kill them- PSI. I then set up a situtation where they could do what they wanted to PSI and there was absolutely no way it could be blamed on the Heroes (it was in the middle of a demonic and alien invasion in Chicago where both invaders had beachheads).

I did this for two reasons;
one: the what will it take to get the team to break thier psych lims on killing- which led to great roleplaying and character development.
two: I wanted at least once where the really nasty bad guy(s) could be defeated and never come back, so the players and characters could have a sense of closure and accomplishment stronger than usual about such things, but tinted with the "should we really have done this" mood.

It worked well.

Other than that villians never really got killed in my game.

As for heroes- I've never killed a heroes in almost 20 years of GMing. I don't intend to start now. Now heroes have been defeated, but never killed.

[Vanguard00]

Nearly all the campaigns I've run and most of the games I've played in have had a very low mortality rate. On occassion a PC will do something so incredibly stupid that the GM can't get 'em out of it with any sort of realism, and the PC dies. I've also been on both sides of an arrangement between player and GM where the PC is killed as part of the story line, usually as a way to get the player out of the game (by request) or so they can bring in a new character.

Villains almost never die, but if they do (and it has to be pretty definite) there are consequences. Even my "killer" PCs tend to not kill villains very often. There's always a getaway clause somewhere.

[Super Squirrel]

Mundanes, Pedestrians, Bystandards die from death level damage.

Villains and Heroes go into comas.

-300 BODY? Guess you better create a new character because he won't be back for a year or so.

[RDU Neil]

Having death occur is a very different question than "do your PCs kill?"

To the first, I say, yes... death is a very real possibility in my campaigns, with serious repercussions... it's just that supers are very, very hard to kill, most of the time. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen, but it is rare, since most will survive incapacitating blows... be out of the fight, but captured or whatever. You really have to blast someone when they are down to whack most supers. That kind of thing is very rare, even in my more gritty campaigns.

Do players kill? Yes... but mostly in combat... not with intent... only once or twice in cold blood. When folks kneejerk and say "Killing is murder" I just cringe. That is crap. Killing in a combat situation is not murder... it's combat. If players want to hunt down a badguy and whack 'em in their sleep... yeah, that's murder... but a villain who dies (or an agent or whomever) resisting apprehension for a crime... that is not murder. Not that death won't have repercussions... it does... and nearly all PCs are at least reluctant to kill... but it does happen, and it's not the end of the world. It's drama.

The main thing about encouraging or discouraging killing in a campaign, is "what is the nature of villainy" and "what happens when they are captured" in you campaign.

If your villains are mass murdering terrorists... ok, kid gloves are off... you don't expect the heroes to play by different rules. If you want Silver Age heroes... create silver age villains. That means the Joker ties Gordon to a big penny... not the Joker kills a truck load of Cub Scouts.

The bigger issue is capture. If your villains escape. If the justice system fails over and over... then there is no excuse for non-lethal force. It would be, in fact, immoral for a hero who's world proves over and over again that capture doesn't work, to NOT kill a villain who has proved to be a mass murderer over and over. Current comics ethics are so completely immoral at this point (killers walk free, no justice system is effective, but hey... heroes don't kill gosh darn it) that it is a joke.

If you want heroes to be non-lethal... make non-lethal effective. That means villains go to prison... they STAY in prison... and murderous villains get death sentences or the like. The hero stops 'em without killing them... the justice system better work, or you just created a bunch of vigilante heroes. You need to reward non-lethal behavior, if you want it to continue.

[Badger]

I've played a reformed villain before. He still had a bit of trouble "understanding" the whole no-killing thing. Especially since "this guy is just going to be back out next Thursday anyway". But he never did get to killing. Though he seriously had to be talked out of it by the resident boy scout superhero one time. It would have been tougher consequences on him given his history.

[TheEmerged]

My current campaign has some definite Iron Age undertones -- NPC's die on a fairly regular basis. In fact the next session has the PC's specifically gunning for an NPC group with intent to kill.

Player death doesn't happen too often, but the PC's have been warned that as they treat so shall they be treated -- they can fully expect to die if they're captured if they go around killing willynilly.

[Wildcat]

Normally I don't like to kill PCs. If a Hero Dies (PC or NPC) it has to mean something. Oddly enough in the last few months of our Campaign a few of the Heroes have died, and at least 3 Villains.
1) Stalker of the Asesinos (Totally rebuilt for 5th Ed): Died may not be the right word - Destroyed is better for this guy. After nearly defeating the Heroes he was taken down by the Team Leader/Archer with a few Ironwood Shafts to the heart. Later the body of the Vampire was handed over to the Church who destroyed it.

2) NPC Hero Blue Fury: She was 'killed' in a major plot device I started off the year with Involving Prof Muerte (Yeah he's still around in my game). The implications of her death are still being felt. She was the love interest of one of the PCs & was killed on their Wedding Day (Yeah I'm an Evil GM)

3) Tombstone Kid, also of the Asesinos (Also Rebuilt for 5th Ed): Destroyed also fits this one, since he was also already dead. He had move on from the defeat of Stalker and joined up with Prof Muerte, and was there when Blue Fury was killed. For his troubles he was cut to shreds by one of the heroes using another Villain’s sword. (The PC is in the middle of the repercussions stemming from that)

4) PC Hero Tempest: While hunting Down Prof Muete who was responsible for killing Blue Fury, the Team encountered a Villain group called Anarchy. During this massively confusing Battle (neat how it works that way) Tempest was laid out by a pretty mean RKA... and he was the team's healer. Anyway with all the confusion Tempest being already @ Neg Body bleed out under some rubble, while the rest of the team was hanging on by the skin of their teeth.

5) Another PC, Chrysalis: She was captured by members of IHA's militant Arm CHESS and was killed. She was a shapeshifting Mutant... This was all done so that a Player new to the group could continue to play the Char with the same powerset, but dif personality (the Orig Chrysalis was not too friendly) So there was some body switching done, and the Orig Chrysalis died in the body of someone else, who in turn is now a member of the Team in the Mutant Shapeshifter's body

6) Last is Infierno: A Cuban Fire/heat projector. He was killed in an underground Arena (a Fight club type affair for Paranormals) another Villain killed him, before the Heroes could stop her.

I try to keep the Death toll low... I don't think it's all that Heroic for the Heroes to kill the villains, and neither do my Players. But from time to time certain events happen that make it unavoidable. As for the death of Tempest, the Gaming group had grown quite a lot from its original size, and I needed some help running all the badguys. It just so happened that Tempest's Player had volunteered to help me out for a bit after the current story arc... and what do you know he got killed. Had he not been stepping aside for a bit I'm sure I'd have GM'd the character out of the situation that took his life. In any event once he's ready to go back to playing... I'm sure I can find a way to bring Tempest back to life.

[TheQuestionMan]

Having Played and GM'ed Champions off and on for several years. I have only killed one character. Bohdi Li(War Child) an alien cloned super soldier who forsook ranged weapons. On earth he became a superhero. His team was capture by the VIPER amd the Sinister Samuria. They were all being held in Deathtrap Cells. Knowing that the only way to escape was to distraction. Bohdi Li challenged the Sinister Samuria to a duel. Which he accepted(aren't Psych Lims wonderful).

They moved to the training gymnasium. Surounded by VIPER Agents and confronting the Sinister Samuria. The Agents watching the other prisoners were distracted by the duel on their monitors and the Heroes escaped, just as Bohdi Li was struck down.

It took VIPER 30mins to realize that their prisoners had escaped. By then the Heroes had regained their equipment and launched assault with the help of UNTIL.

Almost 6 months later found cryo chambers in an abandoned warehouse. Inside was Bohdi Li. According to the computers he was alive, but had a tatoo on his forehead and arm. "MALACHITE !!!"(aka Telios)

Cheers

QM