Growth, DI and Figured Characteristics

[Bloodstone]

This was just something I came up with while playing around with HD and TUB. Consider, if you will, the following:

Growth: 10 Levels (50 RC)
+10 PD (10 Active Points); Linked (Growth; -1/2) (7 RC)
+10 REC (20 Active Points); Linked (Growth; -1/2) (13 RC)
+25 STUN (25 Active Points); Linked (Growth; -1/2) (17 RC)

Total Cost: 87

and

Density Increase: 10 Levels (50 RC)
+10 PD (10 Active Points); Linked (Density Increase; -1/2) (7 RC)
+10 REC (20 Active Points); Linked (Density Increase; -1/2) (13 RC)
+25 STUN (25 Active Points); Linked (Density Increase; -1/2) (17 RC)

Total Cost: 87

Under the circumstances, couldn't we just make an "Add Figured Characteristics from STR" as a +3/4 advantage? Does anyone find it to be a really bad idea, perhaps from an angle I'm not seeing...?

[BobGreenwade]

It makes perfect sense to me. Too bad this wasn't noticed a few months ago, when it might have crept into The Ultimate Brick... (though there might still be hope for The Ultimate Metamorph).

[Gary]

This was just something I came up with while playing around with HD and TUB. Consider, if you will, the following:



and



Under the circumstances, couldn't we just make an "Add Figured Characteristics from STR" as a +3/4 advantage? Does anyone find it to be a really bad idea, perhaps from an angle I'm not seeing...?

It's a really bad idea because Growth and Density can be added to a EC. Stick them with Costs End only to Activate, and you have effectively 1/2 price on Str, which is one of the most cost effective characteristics to begin with.

[Hyper-Man]

It's a really bad idea because Growth and Density can be added to a EC. Stick them with Costs End only to Activate, and you have effectively 1/2 price on Str, which is one of the most cost effective characteristics to begin with.

Bonuses to STR even with the added figured stats mentioned here is still not as good as straight STR. The Growth based character is not going to be hard to hit. The Density Based character is not getting any free leaping bonus either.

Yes, these are minor issues but these combined with costs end appear to balance out any minor points savings from allowing these powers in an EM.

[Gary]

Bonuses to STR even with the added figured stats mentioned here is still not as good as straight STR. The Growth based character is not going to be hard to hit. The Density Based character is not getting any free leaping bonus either.

Yes, these are minor issues but these combined with costs end appear to balance out any minor points savings from allowing these powers in an EM.

Let's take a look. 10 pts of Str costs 10 pts obviously. 10 pts of Growth or DI in a EC also costs 10 pts with Costs End to Activate and Adds Figureds.

With DI, you get +2 PD, +2 ED, -2" KBR for "free" compared to Str. 8 additional points on 10 pts of power is fairly significant.

With Growth, you get +2 Body, +2 Stun, and -2" KBR for "free" compared to Str. I'd say that the increased reach and DCV penalties with extra growth cancel out. So you're still getting 8 pts free on 10 pts of power.

[Hyper-Man]

Let's take a look. 10 pts of Str costs 10 pts obviously. 10 pts of Growth or DI in a EC also costs 10 pts with Costs End to Activate and Adds Figureds.

With DI, you get +2 PD, +2 ED, -2" KBR for "free" compared to Str. 8 additional points on 10 pts of power is fairly significant.

With Growth, you get +2 Body, +2 Stun, and -2" KBR for "free" compared to Str. I'd say that the increased reach and DCV penalties with extra growth cancel out. So you're still getting 8 pts free on 10 pts of power.

I don't see your math logic Gary. 10 points of DI with adds figured and costs end only to activate will cost 20 points. Since it costs end it is not inherent so the character is ever knocked out he will lose the figured characteristic bonuses as well. Since both characters will likely be combat sponges they will be running an all or nothing approach. also EC also puts there STR to the normal EC drawback to Drains and such. It's not above and beyond any of your previous objections to standard STR.

[Gary]

I don't see your math logic Gary. 10 points of DI with adds figured and costs end only to activate will cost 20 points. Since it costs end it is not inherent so the character is ever knocked out he will lose the figured characteristic bonuses as well. Since both characters will likely be combat sponges they will be running an all or nothing approach. also EC also puts there STR to the normal EC drawback to Drains and such. It's not above and beyond any of your previous objections to standard STR.

In the EC, it only costs 1/2 price. Is the EC drain and nonpersistence worth an effective additional +3/4 advantage on top of something that is already tremendously cost effective? Opinions may differ, but I don't want to have an additional power that is even more cost effective than Str running around.

[Hyper-Man]

In the EC, it only costs 1/2 price. Is the EC drain and nonpersistence worth an effective additional +3/4 advantage on top of something that is already tremendously cost effective? Opinions may differ, but I don't want to have an additional power that is even more cost effective than Str running around.

Well, if your going to take a fair look at the other side of the balance sheet, b be sure to include all the issues that both high DI and high Growth characters have to deal with: destruction of the grownd they walk on, can't go inside buildings. the issue that any high growth character has a target on his chest by default so he needs to be tough (I've always thought that growth characters especially have been underpowered when compared to other bricks).

As combatants these are minor issues but as roleplayed heroes these can be very aggrivating limitations. say the heroes are on the 25th floor of a skyscraper when all hell breaks loose? Mr. Density and Mr. Growth had better be carefull activating their powers or they are going to endanger innocents by damaging the structure of the building itself!

[Blue Jogger]

Under the circumstances, couldn't we just make an "Add Figured Characteristics from STR" as a +3/4 advantage? Does anyone find it to be a really bad idea, perhaps from an angle I'm not seeing...?

Watch for people activating their Growth on Segment 12 to get their higher Post-12 Recoveries and de-activating next phase to regain DCV.

[Hyper-Man]

Watch for people activating their Growth on Segment 12 to get their higher Post-12 Recoveries and de-activating next phase to regain DCV.

I think that opponents that saw that happen a couple of times would see that as a 'warning light'. "That guy can get THAT BIG! Let's get him first!!"

[Dust Raven]

Watch for people activating their Growth on Segment 12 to get their higher Post-12 Recoveries and de-activating next phase to regain DCV.

If that's all you wanted, then why not buy extra REC that's Cost END?

But I don't think REC works that way. For your Post Segment 12, you've gotta have the REC for the previous Turn (or at least most of it) for it to count. I don't see any rules about this, so maybe I'm wrong on a rules standpoint, but it makes sense to me.

[Hyper-Man]

If that's all you wanted, then why not buy extra REC that's Cost END?

But I don't think REC works that way. For your Post Segment 12, you've gotta have the REC for the previous Turn (or at least most of it) for it to count. I don't see any rules about this, so maybe I'm wrong on a rules standpoint, but it makes sense to me.

To reinforce this realize that the adds figured advantage is +3/4 and that costs end to active is going add +1/4 or zero end +1/2 so it balances out if they really want to play the light switch game. say 50 points Growth which gives +10 rec but costs 10 end to turn on for 100 active points. OR zero end they pay 112 active points. that seems like a fair tradeoff to me..

[Bloodstone]

It's a really bad idea because Growth and Density can be added to a EC.

An EC requires you to take NFC on any stats you put into it. As such, if you put Growth or DI into an EC, you wounld not be able to select the Adds Figured Characteristics from STR Advantage, as that would violate the rules of the EC.

[Gary]

An EC requires you to take NFC on any stats you put into it. As such, if you put Growth or DI into an EC, you wounld not be able to select the Adds Figured Characteristics from STR Advantage, as that would violate the rules of the EC.

Growth and Density are powers, not characteristics. If you made it clear that the Advantage can't be placed on Growth and Density in a power framework, then I'll drop my objection to it.

[the fox]

Most 'Ultimate' Power Suits or Flying Bricks should use an EC and a Multipower, with overall limitations, varied limitations, all at point break, etc. for their MAIN Powers, possibly including STR!, Growth and DI, Add a second, smaller 'Mega-Mini' EC for 5, 10 pts.Growth, DI and STR!