Dark Champions in Champs Universe?

[FenrisUlf]

Okay, any ideas on just how one could use Dark Champions in the Champions Universe 'present day' (i.e., when all the metahumans are running around), aside from the whole masked vigilante sub-genre?

Myself, I'd like to do something like a 'parallel campaign' in which regular PCs at times play a group of MARS cops or PRIMUS/UNTIL agents who clean up the messes the heroes either don't know about or can't be bothered with. Think like Harry Turtledove's two viewpoint characters in 'Guns of the South' -- General Lee on the high end and a regular trooper at the bottom, both viewing the same event but from very different viewpoints.

[Korvar]

Have the Four-Colour stuff occur in the news, and contrast that with the low-down dirty world the Dark Champions characters occupy.

Have the occasional four-colour threat make its way into their world. In the Dark Champions game I'm probably not going to run again, I had one of the captains of a particular Mafia family be a full-on Brick, who had started his career as a minor supervillain, then decided to reinvent himself after one to many stays in Stronghold. It was going to make for an interesting surprise if any gunplay occurred with regards to that particular family...

[pinecone]

Sure it can work I tend to call this "street level champions" Super exist, and heros may well have powers, but basicly its crime and grime, not glitz and photo-ops. The whole "killing" issue needs to be thought out though...for some any use of force has to be sanitised and decidedly "non-lethal" or it is just Not superheros for them...need to work that sort of thing out Ahead of time......

[Metaphysician]

It would probably take some work to make the Hudson City setting "fit" the Champions U, if you want some degree of consistency. I doubt it will be too much effort, though, once you've decided on some gimmick for why HC has such a different tone, with no overt superhumans ( weird ancient magic artifacts underneath the place is an easy one ). Obviously, the more strictly action adventure material can readily be applied to things like SWAT teams, soldiers, police, and such, and even some types of super campaign elements like agents and such.

[Twilight]

The easy answer to that question is simply that Hudson City does have it's own superhumans, they're just less flashy then superhumans in other cities and thus don't get as much press.

[Metaphysician]

Well, yeah, but that still leaves the question of *why* Hudson City is so different.

"Convergence of mystic forces" is the nice convenient excuse.

[Twilight]

No, that's a cop out. That's a non explanation.

Obviously metahumans raised in a city as violent as Hudson City is are going to be less flashy then superhumans in other cities. After all the flashier they are the more attention they draw to themselves and the more psychos they're liable to attract. That leads to a greater likelyhood of those psychos discovering secret IDs and such and endangering familes and what not.

However if they're sneaky and low key, it leads to greater safety. If they're viewed as 'just another vigilante' the badguys might not take as much trouble to discover secret IDs and such.

[Citizen Keen]

No, that's a cop out. That's a non explanation.

Actually, I brought this up in another thread: Super Powers in Hudson City, and 'convergence of mystical forces' was one of the best answers I got.

Metaphysician, as I understand it (although I'm open to being corrected), Hudson City DOES exist in the Champions Universe. If I remember correctly, at this point in time DoJ doesn't publish settings that are not part of their official timeline.

One idea I had would be something like the Comedian in Watchmen. If you think about it, most supers heroes have pretty cut and dry morality. So, if the government (such as UNTIL) wants someone eliminated, not just arrested, they might have to turn to a covert ops. Imagine 'dirty' UNTIL agents, who have some compunctions (don't kill kids, so forth), but are black ops soldiers who don't shave every day. Super armor, super guns, but not strong enough to take on real villains. Instead, they drop into a VIPER base and plant some C4 and sneak out. Just a thought.

[steriaca]

Imagine 'dirty' UNTIL agents, who have some compunctions (don't kill kids, so forth), but are black ops soldiers who don't shave every day. Super armor, super guns, but not strong enough to take on real villains. Instead, they drop into a VIPER base and plant some C4 and sneak out. Just a thought.

Um...in the real world, UNTIL agents will do just that (asuming VIPER and UNTIL exist in our world, and thay do not, so my point is moot). And asasinating 'evil dictators', killing drug dealers and stealing there stuff, ect...

Which reminds me of the up and comming FPS video game NARK (based loosly on the arcade game of the same name in the mid 80's), where you play a police officer, and CAN acualy steal and sell the drugs you conficate from your oponents. And you can use them also...if you have the guts.

[JmOz]

Here is another fun explanation: Imagine that Hudson City has some REALLY POWERFUL Hero, that is either semi retired or so active with his team that he is rarely home, but MOST villains know that you start doing the flashy villain thing it will draw his attention and you will be in a green bubble going to jail real quick. However as he is so busy he leaves the normal crimes to the PD (and the vigilantes).

I ripped this idea off of somewhere else...

[Metaphysician]

Except that the guy disappears when an ordinary earthquake strikes the city. . .

[JmOz]

Except that the guy disappears when an ordinary earthquake strikes the city. . .

I know it has glitches, glad you caught the refrence

[Spence]

It never occured to me that there would be a problem. In all the games I have been involved in, it was assumed both did exist. It was just a matter of focus. Just like the local population interacts with the local Sheriffs department all the time but never really hears about the FBI or CIA except on TV. The FBI would definitely assist in stopping an assualt or mugging if they happened to be there, but they have bigger fish to fry and won't be looking for lower crimes. Not every city in Champs has a resident Super. The "Good" guys tend to gravitate to where the "Bad" guys operate. If there are no "Big bads" there, the "Big Goods" would be more than willing to let the DC style "Little Goods" take care of things. To explain the difference in perspective from Black and White to Grey. It isn't really that difficult. When you are impervious to "normal" damage you can afford to be a squeaky clean good guy. If the local thug can kill you dead with a .38, well you will tend to be a little more pragmatic. Hence the Dark Champs outlook. Hudson Bay may not have any of the "Big Guys" because none of the major Villians has decided to move in. I have been waiting for Hudson City to come out. I intend to use it for all of my "official universe" campaigns. Super, DC or normals. A city designed for DC or less tends to have a more realistic "feel", at least to me. And it can easily be stepped up by just having a Super Villian or two check in.

[RDU Neil]

Aside from the continuity issues of "how does a major city in a superhero world have no supers" I think the main issue is one of "Are the players willing to be second-stringers in a super hero world?"

Now, personally, I've always loved playing the super agent in a super hero world. I like the lower power level, martial arts type, rather than a super flying blaster man type. I think both can exist... but I also think that that means that certain threats would escalate out of their hands. If their battles against the underworld suddenly unleash a massively powerful demon or villain or whatever... they should be happy when Ultra Man comes along to fight it... allowing them to go back to taking on the thugs and the crime lord who unwittingly brought such destruction on the city.

Again, personally, I love playing the Metropolis SCU guy, much more than playing Superman. But that's just me. A good GM can make the fact of a big adventure taking place beneath a cataclysmic super fight really cool. Energy blasts raining down. Property destruction everwhere... screaming civilians... and you are the spec ops type doing the dirty work in the shadows that really counts. You get the tapes before they are destroyed, etc. I love that stuff... but it isn't for everyone. Your group needs to be comfortable with that, and many players aren't. They play Champions for the power fantasy... unbeatable, always win, black & white morality... all the stuff I consider really dumb... super-pets... gahhh... and they might not go for the deadly underbelly of the world, which I find much more interesting. Many players want to be the best of the best, and to have NPCs, even if they never interact with them, lighting up the night sky in godlike battles, that may bum them out. To me, it's a great backdrop.

YMMV

[pinecone]

RDU...my feelings exactly...to quote an old character of mine "I fight Crime! You spandex wearing losers don't fight crime...you just fight each other!"...It can be very cool But the players need to be on board....