accepting rules suggestions for 1st Annual Combat Wombat Steel Cage Grudge Match!

[Hyper-Man]

In the Cost of strength vs. benefit thread the topic migrated to one of what kind of character would win in a fight between "X" vs. "Y" mainly to prove a point about the over-efficiency of STR (or even DEX) in the current rules.

This thread is NOT intended to be a continuation of that topic.

This thread IS intended to be an open forum to accept suggestions for ground rules that we can all agree on to THEN be used to create booklegal characters to post on a future *Grudge Match! thread to be set up to allow all board members to vote on which posted character they think would win in a round-robin tournament against ALL the others.

*Grudge Match! means that combat may involve different types of situations or terrain like paint-ball.

I would suggest that terrain and situational variables be considered from both sides. That is, during first encounter "X" must get past "Y" and then reverse it. The idea is that in certain situations one character may not NEED to fight an opponent to render him ineffective. This is just one method of testing it.

• 1st example: getting past opponent to diffuse a bomb, rescue hostage etc..
• 2nd example: different environments besides an empty field;crowded warehouse, forest, rocky mountainside, etc..
• 3rd ?

As a starting point for character building guidlines I suggest the following ground rules:

• 350 point characters
• no OIHID characters
• no OIF characters
• maximum 19 CV (OCV or DCV) with manuevers (like dodge) and levels
• maximum 19 DC attack with manuevers (like haymaker or movethrough)
• maximum 8 speed
• maximum 90 active points in any one power
• Multipowers and EM's must have tight themes (*FRED example)
• no VPP's

Please feel free to post any constructive suggestions, ideas or comments!

[Gary]

Here are a few suggestions:

1) No limitations allowed.

2) No more than +2 worth of advantages allowed per power.

3) Megascale not allowed.

4) Charges not allowed (It's too easy to abuse this when you're expecting only one fight)

5) No End Reserve for the same reason as charges.

6) No Extra Dimensional movement allowed.

7) Rapid Fire not allowed.

[Dust Raven]

I don't see the need for point caps or level caps on anything. If you want nothing other than a 70d6 EB (which would cost 35 END, when you'd only have 20), why not? In the end, we're looking at what each individual build can do versus any other individual build. No maximums would accomplish this.

As for allowed Modifiers, I'd say anything goes, again regardless of level/value. The only restrictions I can think of would be no Limitations that aren't limiting during these scenarios (OIHID or No Noncombat Movement, for example). Since even this may be a case by case basis, there should probably be a selected or elected judge to determine what's legal and what's not.

But ultimately, I think each person should be limited to entering a single character. Multiforms and Duplicates are welcome, but no multiple entries.

[Agent X]

Perhaps a random set of terrain features and circumstances could be written up in a table? That way most any limitation could come up.

Chance of being "prepared" for combat 85% - That way OIHID and OIF suits could be a problem.

What time of day is it? So limitations about darkness and light could come up.
1-4 Daytime
5-6 Nighttime

What location? This is where we could get creative.
Open field, forest, mountain, on an object in space, and so on

Of course, this would be a LOT of work.

[Hyper-Man]

I was suggesting CV, DC and Active point caps because I wanted the entries to at least partially resemble some of the characters that most of us use in our actual games, which leads into something I mentioned earlier:

I would suggest that terrain and situational variables be considered from both sides. That is, during first encounter "X" must get past "Y" and then reverse it. The idea is that in certain situations one character may not NEED to fight an opponent to render him ineffective. This is just one method of testing it.

• 1st example: getting past opponent to diffuse a bomb, rescue hostage etc..
• 2nd example: different environments besides an empty field;crowded warehouse, forest, rocky mountainside, etc..

I am trying to focus on a framework to test role-playable characters with. That is, being able to beat the other guy in a fight might not always be necessary. Some character concepts work better if they are defending something due to low movement ability, others can move fast but not do much in certain situations. In some game circumstances either might be more usefull than the other. What I am suggesting is that we come up with at least 3 or 4 common hero vs. villian situations and create a poll to compare how our wombats do on either side of in Each of these situations.

So there are 2 distinct but related goals of this thread.

1. define the 3-4 reversable hero vs. villian situations.
2. define the building rules for said heroes/villains

[Dust Raven]

I see what you're getting at Hyper-Man. I still think there should be no caps, just a list of "restricted" stuff, like Powers, Skills or Modifiers that might not apply to the purpose of this contest. I say "restricted" and not "disallowed" because I'd prefer to keep it open enough for creative concepts. For this little tourney though, I think rule abuse should not only be allowed, but encouraged. But what I don't want is something that violates the rules (like taking a Limitation or Disad that isn't limiting).

Speaking of Disads, there should be a list that automatically apply to the character. Hunted by other contestants. Watched by the contest judges. Social Lim: Metagame Test Subject. And so forth. Anything else goes, but should follow the "if it isn't a disadvantage, it isn't worth any points" rule. Most Distinvtive Features would be right out (those that reveal something of the character's abilities/powers would be allowed, but their value might depend upon the types of contestants). Psych Lims that would only apply in "normal" games shouldn't be allowed (no "in love with wife").

Hunteds should either be entirely disallowed exept as above, or make creative use of. I'm almost thinking they should be allowed, but a reason behind why they are hunted should be provided. Then, during any contest that hunted might show up and add to the confusion. Sounds a bit chaotic, but it would make a Hunted worth the points you get from it. Susceptibilities and Vulnerabilities should be encouraged, but if no one enters a character with something that will affect a certain Susc or Vul, then the judges can make sure the environment will (as often as their Disad says).

Reputation and Social Lims are most likely worthless, but maybe not. At least I can't think of any that would apply to character that only exist in an abstract tourney.

And take some Unluck. Unluck is always fun.

[Hyper-Man]

I see what you're getting at Hyper-Man. I still think there should be no caps, just a list of "restricted" stuff, like Powers, Skills or Modifiers that might not apply to the purpose of this contest. I say "restricted" and not "disallowed" because I'd prefer to keep it open enough for creative concepts. For this little tourney though, I think rule abuse should not only be allowed, but encouraged. But what I don't want is something that violates the rules (like taking a Limitation or Disad that isn't limiting).

Maybe we need to have a poll on the type of restrictions we use for character creation too.

[Dust Raven]

Is there a way to post a poll that allows multiple selections?

[lemming]

Perhaps a random set of terrain features and circumstances could be written up in a table? That way most any limitation could come up.

Chance of being "prepared" for combat 85% - That way OIHID and OIF suits could be a problem.

What time of day is it? So limitations about darkness and light could come up.
1-4 Daytime
5-6 Nighttime

What location? This is where we could get creative.
Open field, forest, mountain, on an object in space, and so on

Of course, this would be a LOT of work.

Well, base the chances of given terrain on limitations that the characters have. If someone has a -1 limit on their powers, then there's a 50% chance that the terrain will have that limit incorporated.

Hmm, still could be messy.

[Hyper-Man]

Is there a way to post a poll that allows multiple selections?

Yes,

I have seen other polls that would allow multiple selections by each voter. They still only allow you to visit the voting booth once though.

[Enforcer84]

COmpletely off topic, but I ran into a COmbat Wombat on the Champions server for City of Heroes. Any chance its you Hyper-Man?

[Hyper-Man]

COmpletely off topic, but I ran into a COmbat Wombat on the Champions server for City of Heroes. Any chance its you Hyper-Man?

Nope,
I don't even own a copy of the game. My PC is too old to handle it unfortunately. Though I did get on a friends account and created a Hyper-Man scrapper that looked pretty good except I couldn't get the black oval in his emblem. I don't think it was on the champions server though and this was weeks ago.

I got the term Combat Wombat from Mentor. He said that was something that his gaming group (including Trebuchet) had been throwing around for years!

[Doug McCrae]

The only rules should be those in the Big Black Book. I wanna see some *monsters* dammit!

[John Desmarais]

Here are a few suggestions:

1) No limitations allowed.

Say what?


John D.

[Gary]

Say what?


John D.

It's too easy to apply limitations that can be minimized or abused in a contest such as this. Far better to get rid of the loopholes up front.