The Last Hurrah (adventure for your use)

[Ghost who Walks]

At the risk of bucking a trend, I rather like this scenario. If for no other reason than detailed scenario ideas are rare in this forum, they should be encouraged. I would change it, but I change everything.

I like the idea of Reagans' gang getting together (would rename them "Reagan's Raiders" though). I would also have them topple some dictator somewhere...North Korea springs to mind.

Any "good" organization can have rogue elements. Any casual reader of history can determine that.

One of the reasons it works for me, is the controversy.

Of course, I also run a campaign world where years ago where I had a bunch of fired Bush-era DEA superagents steal thousands of tons of drugs (by attacking drug cartels), contaminate it with poison, then rerelease it onto the streets. (Note: Drug War reference)

The intent was to get rid of the problem. The heroes talked the DEA guys out of their murderous scheme (that was expected to kill millions of Americans), by informing them that there was a secretive group of aliens who were threatening to invade the world. (at that point, there was). It was resolved through RP, rather than a fight (for reference I used the 4th edition characters on Mongrol and his Pack, cannot remember the source right now)

[NGD]The only comment I will make about Reagan is that he kept us out of a lot of pointless foreign wars (except Grenada). That is in marked contrast to his successors. He will be missed, in a lot of ways he was our last President that united the country.[/NGD]

Anyway, thanks Crackerjacker for giving me the idea of having a Reagan-themed story.

[Trebuchet]

Nothing wrong with a Reagan-themed scenario. I simply object to partisan hatchet jobs thinly disguised as a theme.

Hmm, I may try to do one myself....

[Crackerjacker]

That is the one thing Im trying to say. It's not a partisan hatchet job. Its just as plausible as any supers story, and there is nothing more "politically motivated" about Reagan having a secret nuclear base and recruiting superhumans he knew were unstable than saying that the American government in the 40's trusted a former Nazi scientist to test chemical agents on our soldiers (Captain America, anyone?). My point being, that stories dealing with elements of governments, good or bad, becoming the threat, are a regular supers trope. This adventure has nothing to do with my political beleifs, as I'm a teenager who couldnt give a rat's ass about what kind of president Reagan was besides trying to have a somewhat accurate impression of him for a fictional idea.

[Chuckg]

> That is the one thing Im trying to say. It's not a partisan hatchet job.

You make a key piece of the plot that Reagan's ideals were to detonate the Earth in nuclear fire, and have him secretly running a team of superhumans who are as psycho as the faux-Avengers in Millar's AUTHORITY were, and it's *not* a partisan hatchet job?

I suppose how the whole setup just happens to precisely align with perhaps the three or four most common anti-Reagan stereotypes that the more partisanly shrill pundits of the other side have been peddling for the past twenty years is as coincidence, right?

Look, it's your campaign, so you can do what you want with it. And we're also free to think that it really would've worked better some other way, perhaps.

[Trebuchet]

That is the one thing Im trying to say. It's not a partisan hatchet job. Its just as plausible as any supers story, and there is nothing more "politically motivated" about Reagan having a secret nuclear base and recruiting superhumans he knew were unstable than saying that the American government in the 40's trusted a former Nazi scientist to test chemical agents on our soldiers (Captain America, anyone?). My point being, that stories dealing with elements of governments, good or bad, becoming the threat, are a regular supers trope. This adventure has nothing to do with my political beleifs, as I'm a teenager who couldnt give a rat's ass about what kind of president Reagan was besides trying to have a somewhat accurate impression of him for a fictional idea.

To put it bluntly: Hogwash.

Yes, elements of the US government in the comics often do weird and/or bad things. However, when those elements are doing bad things it's generally a rogue outfit, not officially sanctioned in the Oval Office and perpetrated by the president's hand-picked "enforcers." (The only criminal President I can recall in comics is Lex Luthor. Anyone think his agents would decide Luthor really wanted to blow up the world?) Having some psychotic general or former Secretary of Defense go off the reservation is reasonable. Having a former President so badly misunderstood by a team of elite agents who supposedly knew him well is stretching plausibility well past flying people in spandex.

[Chuckg]

Heck, I get twitchy about psycho generals or evil SecDefs, just because the comics *have* beaten that one to death with a rock...

... but yes, implausible as I find them, it's still far far less implausible than the idea of POTUS being that truly out of his mind, or having longtime 'inner samurai' who thought he was.

[WhammeWhamme]

To put it bluntly: Hogwash.

Yes, elements of the US government in the comics often do weird and/or bad things. However, when those elements are doing bad things it's generally a rogue outfit, not officially sanctioned in the Oval Office and perpetrated by the president's hand-picked "enforcers." (The only criminal President I can recall in comics is Lex Luthor. Anyone think his agents would decide Luthor really wanted to blow up the world?) Having some psychotic general or former Secretary of Defense go off the reservation is reasonable. Having a former President so badly misunderstood by a team of elite agents who supposedly knew him well is stretching plausibility well past flying people in spandex.

I did not read it thoroughly (frankly, it was painful to read).

However.

I believe he has since stated that
1) The enforcers went rogue.
2) The 'blow up the world device' was an emergency measure, to make sure that there was always a bigger stick.

(if he didn't, then these changes are needed)

So, here's how it could work: The enforcers realize that once he died, there was no way they wouldever be forgiven. So they're going to send the world to hell with them.

Which is scary.

And also a nice, apocalyptic scenario.

[Crackerjacker]

That's exactly what I was trying to convey Whamme. I'm just not exactly a clear speaker (or typer in this case)

[Trebuchet]

I did not read it thoroughly (frankly, it was painful to read).

However.

I believe he has since stated that
1) The enforcers went rogue.
2) The 'blow up the world device' was an emergency measure, to make sure that there was always a bigger stick.

(if he didn't, then these changes are needed)

So, here's how it could work: The enforcers realize that once he died, there was no way they wouldever be forgiven. So they're going to send the world to hell with them.

Which is scary.

And also a nice, apocalyptic scenario.

But that's not what he said, W². He said "The background story is that the Minutemen went rouge [sic] and tried to seize America's nuclear weapons for immediate use against the rest of the world, thinking it was in their President's wishes." Nothing about looking for forgiveness or a pardon (and no explanation as to why they'd even need one, considering they'd successfully stayed underground for 16 years. I'll buy one guy going nuts; not four (unless the one who first whacked out was a mentalist who then screwed up the other heroes). His scenario is still implying that Reagan was a nutcase and so were his picked henchmen. Anything else is purely after-the-fact-rationalization.

You're essentially rewriting his scenario for him to make it more plausible than originally presented. If that's what floats your boat, cool. But he resisted anyone else's attempt to alter his scenario.

[Grailknight]

Lighten up guys,

Crackerjack is making a mistake but its more from lack of information than political bias. Reagan was the best of our recent presidents and is seen by some as the founder of the current Republican Party line but that line has gone further right and gotten more bipartisan than it ever was. From a teenager's point of view, politics from the 50's on all blur together. I may have disagreed with Reagan's economics but I don't think he was a hawk and he definitely wouldn't be part of party to such actions.

This scenario, while interesting, hasn't been plausible since the Cuban Missle Crisis. If you want to criticise him do it for lack of research not politics.

[Powerhouse]

I think that people are not liking it for several reasons:


1. Linking the team to President Reagan. It's not needed and instead I suggest just being a defunct team that went rogue. Maybe they were sent to pasture after the Cold war.

2. Why are they doing what they doing? Tehre should be some logic even if they are crazy. Instead of wiping out the US in a nuclear holacaust (which makes no sense for persons who consider themselves patriots), they can try to wipe out a percieved enemy of America. Russia would be great since they are now tenous allies though showing signs of going back to dictatorship. If you want to include Reagan, consider this "finshing his legacy" since Reagan is credited with ending the Cold war and teh Soviet Empire.

[Crackerjacker]

Reagan has to be linked, and you couldnt change the plot. But the idea is that the Minutemen were picked by Reagan because they were the most susceptible to suggestion out of America's most powerful superhumans. They all underwent severe psionic and just old fashion conditioning to the point where they would never betray the president and become his assassin. However this all did not help their mental stability, so when the Utopian (actually the Nazi supergenius Meister-Verstander in deep cover) planted the seed of the idea in the leader and most political of any of them, Justice, it didnt take much to convince the rest of them to join in the plot to capture and destroy the nuclear devices of the world. The Hood did it out of nationalism and irrational hatred, The Killing Joke did it for his sociopathic kicks, and Nightwatcher did it because he was ordered to, and in his personality it was so ingrained that he didnt want to disobey an order from Justice. And US Law did it bececause he was a violent psychopath AND a nationalist.

These guys were worldbeaters, and it took a whole lot of cooperation between the USA and USSR to stop them. It ended the life of the Hood, and the Utopian wasnt a part of it, simply slipping into another one of his cover identities. When Justice flew to into space the crisis was over, and the authorities did there best but could never find The Joke or Nightwatcher, and US Law was impossible to find as they did kill him, but he regenerated and escaped.

Justice had been intercepting radio transmissions, and came down from orbit and instituted a secret meeting with the remaining Minutemen, all of them slightly less powerful than they were back in the day, but still extremely powerful supers (just not worldbeaters anymore).

Being the ultimate patriot and American soldier, Justice (who is kind of a delluded Superman) beleived that now that Reagan is dead they all have to fall on their swords. They should of died before their master did, as retainers are supposed to (using samurai code for inspiration in this bit, I am). Maybe none of them but the near-alien in his insanity US Law and the larger than life Justice would go through with pushing the button, but Nightwatcher and the Joke were both whacked out enough to be part of the plot. The plot, that is, to end their lives and complete their mission of preventing nuclear war, by causing a nuclear holocaust of their own.

Maybe I didnt make this all clear enough the first time, but still you'd have to really be not paying attention to think I was saying that Reagan wanted to cause a nuclear holocaust.

[Agent X]

Give the guy a break.

The scenario could be used with virtually any Presidential Administration. The idea about suggestibility makes the story more plausible and more interesting. The degree of instability on the part of the rogue super-soldiers could be toned down as could the stakes, or the nature of the doomsday device, to be used in a lighter campaign than the one it appears tailored to.

Thanks for the adventure concept. I may be able to mutate this someday into something that fits my campaign.

[Chuckg]

> Give the guy a break.

> The scenario could be used with virtually any Presidential Administration.

Only if 'virtually any Presidential Administration' would build, train, equip, and retain violently unstable retards with nihilistic death fetishes literally the size of a planet.

Dude, we're talking about people Randall Dowling(*) wouldn't tolerate on his staff. You don't even have to assume that the Presidential administration in question is benevolent, you merely have to assume that they have more than one functioning brain cell, and the suspension of disbelief will completely implode.




(*) Wildstorm, "Planetary". For those who don't know -- the most purely evil sonofabitch in that entire damned universe.

[Kirby]

Reagan has to be linked, and you couldnt change the plot.

You know, I was holding some hope for you, but this just seems to have eliminated that. With all your posts on this thread, you just seem to be a junior high or high school kid with a superplot just to have one. Heck, I've been there; I've had the horrible plots/adventures. (Though mostly in D&D.) The difference is that when I was critiqued by my players, I listened to what they said and have never run as horrible adventures as I did back then. Not that all my plots are great ones, but I've learned and progressed since then.

You haven't even been willing to change anything, or accept any suggestions from those offering it. You've said that you made changes so we could use it, but our changes aren't good enough for you. Aside from how unlikely anyone posting is to use this exact theme, let's look at some basic flaws you won't budge on:

1: You've not changed Reagan a little, but made him nearly opposite of how he was.

2: We would have to create/introduce world-scale villains that everyone is supposed to already fear for their background.

3: We would have to rewrite history to accomodate your plot, making the U.S. and U.S.S.R. work together to stop these people in the past, when this may be the antithesis of someone else's history.

4: We would have to rewrite history again and suddenly all know that these "enforcers" were public-like figures and that they were in the spotlight from 15-23 years ago.

Do you see yet why we have trouble with this?

But the idea is that the Minutemen were picked by Reagan because they were the most susceptible to suggestion out of America's most powerful superhumans.

This just adds to the problem. The "Susceptible to suggestion" implies that Reagan or the government was looking for some easily brainwashable people. The Secret Service agents charged with protecting presidents are not lackeys. They are determined minds. Why would supers have to be brainwashed or mind altered when normals aren't?

Maybe I didnt make this all clear enough the first time, but still you'd have to really be not paying attention to think I was saying that Reagan wanted to cause a nuclear holocaust.

Maybe you haven't been paying attention to your own postings.

...the Juggernaut, a nuclear weapons command center that only President Reagan and his closest staff members knew of....

(Post #1)

And the Juggernaut was Reagan's paranoid insurance policy in case of nuclear war. His contingency plan.

(Post #5)

Stating that a president and his staff are the only ones to know of a nuclear facility (what about those guarding & operating it?) and wouldn't tell their successor tends to give us an idea. Follow that up with you saying it was Reagan's "paranoid insurance policy" and I think the implications speak what we've been saying.

Learn to take suggestions. Several positngs state how they'd change some things to run it, but no, you don't want that. Lighten up. This last post of yours has made me not want to help out any more and I've lost interest in doing so. I truely hope your next thread idea is better and that you'll take suggetions.