Bringing new players to HERO System.

[Mark Taylor]

I'm curious because the difficulty of bring new players to HERO System has been much discussed on this board (and on RPG.net). I'm just about to begin two HERO campaings (Ninja HERO and Fantasy HERO) and have six players signed up for each. Some of these players have heard negative things about HERO system (the usual - overly complicated, difficult math, yadda yadda) but still it took very little persausion on my part to convince them to give it a try. I've just told the players that I'll make it as easy for them to get into the system as I can, that I think most of the criticisms are greatly exaggerated at best, and that if they have a desire to learn more about the system than they will need to play then Sidekick provides an excellent (and cheap) introduction.

What are the main difficulties that other people find in trying to persuade new players to give it a chance?

[Agent X]

I'm curious because the difficulty of bring new players to HERO System has been much discussed on this board (and on RPG.net). I'm just about to begin two HERO campaings (Ninja HERO and Fantasy HERO) and have six players signed up for each. Some of these players have heard negative things about HERO system (the usual - overly complicated, difficult math, yadda yadda) but still it took very little persausion on my part to convince them to give it a try. I've just told the players that I'll make it as easy for them to get into the system as I can, that I think most of the criticisms are greatly exaggerated at best, and that if they have a desire to learn more about the system than they will need to play then Sidekick provides an excellent (and cheap) introduction.

What are the main difficulties that other people find in trying to persuade new players to give it a chance?

I've had no trouble finding players. The Oklahoma City Area is full of HERO players.

[Snarf]

What are the main difficulties that other people find in trying to persuade new players to give it a chance?

If the potential players don't already like rules heavy games, then I wouldn't try too hard to recruit them. You're going to be fighting an uphill battle the whole time unless they're pretty open minded and willing to put some effort into learning a new game.

[John Desmarais]

I'm curious because the difficulty of bring new players to HERO System has been much discussed on this board (and on RPG.net). I'm just about to begin two HERO campaings (Ninja HERO and Fantasy HERO) and have six players signed up for each. Some of these players have heard negative things about HERO system (the usual - overly complicated, difficult math, yadda yadda) but still it took very little persausion on my part to convince them to give it a try. I've just told the players that I'll make it as easy for them to get into the system as I can, that I think most of the criticisms are greatly exaggerated at best, and that if they have a desire to learn more about the system than they will need to play then Sidekick provides an excellent (and cheap) introduction.

What are the main difficulties that other people find in trying to persuade new players to give it a chance?

Getting gamers to try Hero: that's easy.

Finding gamers in North Carolina: that's hard.

[Mark Taylor]

If the potential players don't already like rules heavy games, then I wouldn't try too hard to recruit them. You're going to be fighting an uphill battle the whole time unless they're pretty open minded and willing to put some effort into learning a new game.

I'm not particularly worried about that aspect of it. One of my strongest points as a GM is the ablility to teach players what they need to know about new systems without overloading them. Put simply, I'm good at teaching and explaining systems. I've been able to do that successfully with numerous systems in the past, including some fairly rules-heavy systems. I'll show them what they need to know as they create characters and then as they play, as I always have done. I expect at least a few of them will be curious enough to want to learn more and will probably at least get their own copies of Sidekick, but I don't make it a requirement. IMX nothing is more likely to put players off a system than requiring them to buy the book - which is understandable, especially when it's a system they know little or nothing about until they've actually played it.

[Mark Taylor]

Getting gamers to try Hero: that's easy.

Finding gamers in North Carolina: that's hard.

Quite a lot of other posts I remember reading have suggested the former is hard. I was interested in hearing about what approaches people had tried and why they think they failed (or succeeded).

Good luck with the latter.

[John Desmarais]

Quite a lot of other posts I remember reading have suggested the former is hard. I was interested in hearing about what approaches people had tried and why they think they failed (or succeeded).

Good luck with the latter.

Actually, to give a more meaningful answer, my expereince with gamers over the past 20-odd years (Oh my, am I really that old?) is that most gamers are willing to try almost any game system - so long as someone else is willing to GM.

The only common exception to this that I have encountered has been a sub-set of the White Wolf WOD gamers who ONLY play WOD games (but the old curmudgeon simply chooses to not consider them to be "true gamers").

[tesuji]

i ran a lot of HERo games over the years, both supers and fantasy hero. In most of those, i had guys who were either already experienced with HERo or people whi did not mind heavier systems. But for a number of them, i actively sought new players and brought them in.

First thing to do is hook them not on the system but on the game. Figure out a genre or style they are interested in that you feel you can not only do well but that HERO does well. Until say the last several years, i might have urged scifi since the pickin's were slim, but maybe now with so much scifi out there and the popularity of supers scifi isn't the best choice. i will leave that to you.

Second thing is, remember, new players (unless they are "system crunchers" by nature) are usually less interested in learning the system and playing the system than they are in playing the game or playing their characters. IMX they are really not interested in a course on "HERO frameworks 101" and "HERO Rounding is your friend 301". So take a lot of time before hand to create a workable quick pick and play startup. Don't make them figure out how to build spiderman from scratch and whether his spidey sense fits in an Ec... provide archtypes. While you are plumbing the waters to get a feel for the type of game, LISTEN and remember the characters they mention as interesting and provide those as archtypes. The goal is to get them into play without making the system a hill they have to climb BEFORE they ever see fun time.

Third thing is, make the play quick, lively and not about the system. Don't get anywhere close to held actions, speed chart milking, cannot shhot and move, and all the other HEROisms that experienced hero guys have all accepted as gospel. Dont talk INCHES unless their characters are breaking out a ruler for an actual in game measurement. Talk feet or yards or meters. Don't fret over any maneuver not listed on the character sheet for a while, save the martial artist with passing strike speedster move thrus for later. in short, avoid using the parts of the system "against them" that they will be unfamiliar with. Your goal is to highlight the good parts of the combat system and not to show them that they know so very little about the whole thing that they feel unprepared when actually playing.

let them grow with the game as opposed to climb up to it. Add more things in as they ask about it.

[Agent X]

And build a character sheet that has the points off of it. It is amazing how small most character sheets get when you take the accounting off the page. Set up nice little boxes for Characteristics, Movement, Senses, Defenses, Attacks, and Skills and enjoy.

[Doc Democracy]

And build a character sheet that has the points off of it. It is amazing how small most character sheets get when you take the accounting off the page. Set up nice little boxes for Characteristics, Movement, Senses, Defenses, Attacks, and Skills and enjoy.

I think this is key.

If you can emphasise the coolness and hide anything not absolutely necessary for the players to see then it is guaranteed to go much better.


Doc

[Lord Kilsco]

To my mind, "Hero System Sidekick" is a first good try to bring new players to Hero System. It explains simply the basics of the system and emphasizes what is the most important part of the system for a player : character creation !

However, I can't deny that Hero System is complex. That's why, imho, GM must take care of the most complex elements of the system and help players to create their characters. The best way for that is to speak to the player to know what kind of character he wants to play, and then create the character with him. A big mistake would be to let a player create his character alone, with just his rulebook ...

[Killer Shrike]

You have to be willing to see some of the players not stick, and keep going with the ones that have an interest.


Personally I take the approach LK recommends; I work with the players to collect what kind of character they want to play, and then translate that into the HERO System for them (on the points available). It can take awhile, but it solves a lot of other problems and is thus worth the effort generally speaking IMO.

[Maccabe]

The one thing I have found that turns most people OFF about Champions
is that the system is too "generic". Now with some game systems; DC, MUSH, V&V,GURPS etc, the powers are neatly spelled out.
Example-> Fire Generation does 3d8 damage and thats all you need to know. However in HERO that could be 4d6 Energy Blast with the special
effect of Fire. It can be; Fire Breathing, Flaming Missile, Pyrokinesis,etc.
(Sturring up the imagination of a gamer seems to be a rare skill indeed.)

[Lord Kilsco]

The one thing I have found that turns most people OFF about Champions
is that the system is too "generic". Now with some game systems; DC, MUSH, V&V,GURPS etc, the powers are neatly spelled out.
Example-> Fire Generation does 3d8 damage and thats all you need to know. However in HERO that could be 4d6 Energy Blast with the special
effect of Fire. It can be; Fire Breathing, Flaming Missile, Pyrokinesis,etc.
(Sturring up the imagination of a gamer seems to be a rare skill indeed.)

Once again, I think it's the GM role to help the player to find the technical answer of what he wants for his character. The player explains the power or the spell he wants, then the GM and the player find the Hero System solution. Gradually, the player will be more and more familiar with the system and will need less and less GM help.

[Mark Taylor]

Today I got all of the characters for the Turakian Age created, working with the players. It went pretty well and I'm pleased with the result! Because it's a published setting it's not too hard for the players to get what they want without going too deeply into the system, of course. All of the spells plus options are spelled out in FHG, and FH and TA have dozens of package deals to help the players choose what they want. However almost all of the players at least got adventurous enough to want to customise their Professional Package Deals to some extent, and one player even got adventurous enough to want to build a spell from scratch (admittely a rather simple one), so I basically built the spell for him and showed him the steps involved and the requirements of the TA magic system as I was doing it. The end result of that particular endeavor (in case anybody is interested) was:

<HR>
Air Prison

This spell creates a magical, swirling vortex of air around a single character, imprisoning him and making it impossible to move until he breaks out.

Entangle 5d6, 5 DEF, Takes No Damage From Attacks (+1/2) (75 Active Points); Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4), Requires An Air Magic Roll (-1/2), Spell (-1/2). Total Cost: 30 points (final cost to caster: 10 points).

<HR>
Anyway, none of the players were put off the system at all, and all of them are enthusiastic about starting play next week. One player already went out and bought Sidekick and Fantasy Hero (but they're waiting for 5ER before buying FREd). Pretty good result, so far.