Will DC cover the X Files Weird Conspiracy Genre?

[humantorch101]

Noticed in the back page writeup of the book that it mentioned the weird conspiracy genre. Is their much material in the book covering such stuff as the X Files or games such as Conspiracy X or Dark Matter?

Would it be a genre you would think about publishing setting material for eventually?

Rgds
Torch

[Killer Shrike]

It can be used for things of that nature, no problem.

[Steve Long]

Absolutely it covers "weird conspiracy" stuff. That's one of the subgenres covered in Chapter One (though admittedly the description is comparatively short, since weird conspiracy is more of a meta-genre ladled on top of another genre). And as with Champions, just about any modern-day-oriented material could be used in an "X-Files Hero" game, and DC is full of that.

I'd definitely like to delve into weird conspiracy further with a subgenre book at some point. It would be a hoot and a half to really delve into subjects like UFOs, cryptozoology, conspiracies, science gone awry, cults, and on and on. I'd probably wrap the book around either or both of two campaign ideas I have, the Cagliostro Project (more of a law enforcement weird conspiracy thing) and SERAPH (which hews more toward military action). But that's all a ways in the future, so who knows what I may think of 'tween now and then?

[lapsedgamer]

I would love to see something like this, but -- no offense meant--it would be hard to top Delta Green. I loved those supplements. The whole setting was really well done. However, I am a big Hero fan, so I could be turned.

[Derek Hiemforth]

Delta Green is awesome, no doubt about it. However...

1. Delta Green (AFAIK) is still out of print and commanding outrageous prices.
2. Delta Green is for CoC, not the HERO System.
3. There are lots of other spins that can be put on the weird conspiracy subgenre besides the angles covered in Delta Green.

Just 'cause someone's done one fantastic campaign setting for a genre doesn't mean that no one else should ever touch it again.

[Steve Long]

I have no illusions about my ability to do Delta Green better than Delta Green. It is, IMO, one of the best game supplements ever produced.

But as Derek points out, there's a lot more to weird conspiracy besides "X-Files reworked through the Cthulhu lens." If I were to do a weird conspiracy book, it wouldn't attempt to redo or outdo Delta Green -- it would attempt to do something equally good, but different, in the same overall subgenre.

[zornwil]

Without saying more or overcommitting at the moment, I'm quite interested in the sub-genre constituted by Hellblazer, Buffy the Vampire Slayer the Dresden series, and the like. There's a strong relationship to X-Files/Weird Conspiracy stuff but I'm not sure how strong exactly. One primary difference is that the former rely on Urban Fantasy tropes (even if they are a subset thereof) while the latter rely moreso on sci-fi.

Just a few thoughts...good conversation...

[RDU Neil]

Without saying more or overcommitting at the moment, I'm quite interested in the sub-genre constituted by Hellblazer, Buffy the Vampire Slayer the Dresden series, and the like. There's a strong relationship to X-Files/Weird Conspiracy stuff but I'm not sure how strong exactly. One primary difference is that the former rely on Urban Fantasy tropes (even if they are a subset thereof) while the latter rely moreso on sci-fi.

Just a few thoughts...good conversation...

I think you bring up a good point here, Zornwil... in that I agree there is a difference between the Modern Fantasy (Urban Fantasy) genre and the "Weird Conspiracy" genre... and you hit it on the head.

One is about wild magic/horror... the other is s-f (horror, but not quite). While both are quite fun... to my mind they are distinctly separate genres. (One of the reasons I disliked X-Files was that it mixed these two... going from alien conspiracy to vampires, etc.)

The big difference is that with a "magic" style game, weird stuff "just is..." Weird powers, mythic references, ancient monsters, religious allusion... all that is just accepted as "there are forces beyond our ken we must deal with!"
That is really cool, and has it's own distinct flavor.

S-F style, conspiracy style... is altogether different, because it is a search for answers. It is a search for the "truth" behind the SEEMINGLY unexplainable. It is not about saying, "Oh... there are vampires... scary!" but saying, "Oh, there are vampires... and we've isolated the gene that causes this blood disease that creates long lived, carnivorous, fanged monsters with the side efffect of extreme sensitivity to UV radiation."

This is also really cool... but very different. Fantasy is about just accepting the weird... reveling in it to some extent... and s-f is about explaining it, categorizing it, uncovering the secret... or at least trying to do so. For s-f to be satisfying, there needs to be an "answer" at the end... but that is rarely the focus of a fantasy game, modern or otherwise.

(And to bring horror into it... classic fantasy horror is about helplessness... being at the mercy of a power from "elsewhere" that defies logic, defies resistance, never can be stopped, etc. It is the pop culture interpretation of classic western dualism that separates good & evil and makes evil this "beast" that will always return to rear it's ugly head.

S-F has horror elements to it... but the key difference is, that we often understand the monster, know where it is coming from, and often realize we caused it in the first place... and there is an end. Sometimes the "bad" is defeated... sometimes it wins... but this horror is most often based around "what if..." and extrapolating current trends to fantastic extremes... toxic waste created monsters, aliens disturbed as we explore the stars, whatever.)

The key point, IMO, for a successful book, tv show, or RPG, is to recognize which of these stories you are trying to tell, and stay clear of the other one. When they get confused, it degrades them both, and with an RPG, can lead to serious misunderstandings in a group of players as it will confound expectations.

[StGrimblefig]

I have no illusions about my ability to do Delta Green better than Delta Green. It is, IMO, one of the best game supplements ever produced.

But as Derek points out, there's a lot more to weird conspiracy besides "X-Files reworked through the Cthulhu lens." If I were to do a weird conspiracy book, it wouldn't attempt to redo or outdo Delta Green -- it would attempt to do something equally good, but different, in the same overall subgenre.

I haven't read Delta Green, so I do not know about its quality. As for me, the best conspiracy suppliment (weird or otherwise) has to be GURPS Illuminati. The fact that it has minimal GURPS stats (I was never impressed by the GURPS system) and lots of ideas for large scale ("big 'C'") and small scale ("small 'c'") conspiracies makes it a useful reference in any system. The "50 Awful Things About the Illuminati" alone are great inspirations for the genre.

If you can produce something "equally good, but different," with a Hero twist it will certainly top my list of desired books.

[lapsedgamer]

As I said, I am a big fan of Hero products, and especially Mr. Long's work. I would be anxious to see what Hero could put together. I just felt that credit was due to a great setting. Please do not revoke my Hero privileges.

[Steve Long]

No need to worry, l.g. -- even if I were inclined to revoke Hero privileges for the expression of opinion, yours definitely wouldn't warrant such drastic action!

I like GURPS Illuminati myself, Grimblefig, though I recall finding it a rather dry read. But I suspect that was just me way back in my just-out-of-D&D days. Today I'd probably look on it as a source of inspiration, and as a "bar" that any similar book I wrote would have to exceed.

[zornwil]

I think you bring up a good point here, Zornwil... in that I agree there is a difference between the Modern Fantasy (Urban Fantasy) genre and the "Weird Conspiracy" genre... and you hit it on the head.

One is about wild magic/horror... the other is s-f (horror, but not quite). While both are quite fun... to my mind they are distinctly separate genres. (One of the reasons I disliked X-Files was that it mixed these two... going from alien conspiracy to vampires, etc.)

The big difference is that with a "magic" style game, weird stuff "just is..." Weird powers, mythic references, ancient monsters, religious allusion... all that is just accepted as "there are forces beyond our ken we must deal with!"
That is really cool, and has it's own distinct flavor.

S-F style, conspiracy style... is altogether different, because it is a search for answers. It is a search for the "truth" behind the SEEMINGLY unexplainable. It is not about saying, "Oh... there are vampires... scary!" but saying, "Oh, there are vampires... and we've isolated the gene that causes this blood disease that creates long lived, carnivorous, fanged monsters with the side efffect of extreme sensitivity to UV radiation."

This is also really cool... but very different. Fantasy is about just accepting the weird... reveling in it to some extent... and s-f is about explaining it, categorizing it, uncovering the secret... or at least trying to do so. For s-f to be satisfying, there needs to be an "answer" at the end... but that is rarely the focus of a fantasy game, modern or otherwise.

(And to bring horror into it... classic fantasy horror is about helplessness... being at the mercy of a power from "elsewhere" that defies logic, defies resistance, never can be stopped, etc. It is the pop culture interpretation of classic western dualism that separates good & evil and makes evil this "beast" that will always return to rear it's ugly head.

S-F has horror elements to it... but the key difference is, that we often understand the monster, know where it is coming from, and often realize we caused it in the first place... and there is an end. Sometimes the "bad" is defeated... sometimes it wins... but this horror is most often based around "what if..." and extrapolating current trends to fantastic extremes... toxic waste created monsters, aliens disturbed as we explore the stars, whatever.)

The key point, IMO, for a successful book, tv show, or RPG, is to recognize which of these stories you are trying to tell, and stay clear of the other one. When they get confused, it degrades them both, and with an RPG, can lead to serious misunderstandings in a group of players as it will confound expectations.

Thanks for the support, that's encouraging as I am preparing something on this...

[Worldmaker]

Let's all remember that the "weird conspiracy" subgenre includes the Men in Black films. Its a big, big subgenre that's barely scratched if all you're talking about is X-Files and Delta Green.

[zornwil]

Let's all remember that the "weird conspiracy" subgenre includes the Men in Black films. Its a big, big subgenre that's barely scratched if all you're talking about is X-Files and Delta Green.

Fully agreed, good point. And of course there's lots more. Particularly if we throw in the inspiration of popular alien conspiracy theories and the like which are a legitimate inspiration and cross-feeding cultural influence to the genre.

[lapsedgamer]

Maybe I was being too narrow-minded. There is definitely a lot of potential in the genre. I just saw the update of The Manchurian Candidate, and I thought that it was fairly good. I like the Sinatra version better as a film, but there were some really creepy paranoiac scenes and plot threads in it. There was the reference to that whole MK-ULTRA mythology. Mix in a little COINTELPRO, some artistic license with the Patriot Act, and you may not even need too much rubber science or fantasy to give people the chills.

I'm not even talking about FEMA and the black helicopters yet. Then again, maybe I shouldn't.