Your superhero games, comic-based or comic-opposed?

[zornwil]

Generally, as a GM or player selecting games, do you prefer to play comics as they are (whatever era or style that might be) or as you wish they were but (by and large, there may be exceptions) are not?

[Doc Democracy]

Generally, as a GM or player selecting games, do you prefer to play comics as they are (whatever era or style that might be) or as you wish they were but (by and large, there may be exceptions) are not?

You trying to find out how many genre fiends there are out here?

Personally I think that I want to play comics as they are. I wanted to play superheroes coz I liked reading hte comics and I want the same feel when I play the game.

I think most people do, that's why you get the arguments about combat luck and whether Batman and Cyclops could survive in a Champions game. They _want_ the feel of the comic and if the mechanics do that less than seamlessly then they are disappointed in the game.


Doc

[Ghost who Walks]

Good question.

One pproblem with Superhero gaming, is the fact you are translating a visual medium into (usually) a non visual one.

ORiginally, I played my campaign as comic-superheroic, but it was based on mostly independent comics. Some of which are so obscure, it isn't worth mentioning them.

The old champions comic was actually a pretty big influence. Often, it actually read like a scenario, rather than a comic. Another was the Justice League, back when they were funny.

In the last few years, most of my campaigns have come from reading sci-fi, instead of comics. Only comic I read regularly any more is Savage Dragon. That should tell you something.

I found that I wanted more science/reality in my gaming, that I wanted to have more about the "why" the universe was the way it was, rather than concentrating on the fantastic.

I do use a lot of visualization today. I take pictures off the net, paste them into ecel, and print them out. So far, my players like it a lot, providing visual pictures of locations/people.

[Stray Cat]

I haven't read as many comics as most people my age in this forum, but I try to use the game to simulate comics. I think that is because the people who introduced me to the game long ago and not so far away (AgentX and Superskrull) have the same mentality.

Cat

[Misery Lad]

Actually, Senator, I'd like to attach a rider to that bill.

Do you any of you as referees have problems with game psychologies running amiss simply because your players don't read comic books? I find, far, far more often than not, that the players of my Champions games have almost never read comics and that gets in the way sometimes, at the most critical junctures. What most of us take as conventions in comics (such as letting the villain get away after a long, exhausting fight resulting in the foiling of his dastardly scheme) rub certain players the wrong way, like sandpaper on a baby's bottom. Typically, it's dat 'ol D & D mentality rearing its head. The kill-'em-all-and-grab-the-treasure approach that tends to get you ostracized and put away in a comic book setting. Has anyone here been successful at getting those kinds of players to put down the latest knock-off fantasy novel in favor of JLA, New Warriors or Astro City?

[Doug McCrae]

I'm a genre fiend, no doubt about it.

[assault]

Has anyone here been successful at getting those kinds of players to put down the latest knock-off fantasy novel in favor of JLA, New Warriors or Astro City?

I haven't had to, but...

I wasn't a comics reader when I started playing Champions back in 1982. On the other hand, I _had_ read them as a kid, had watched the Batman TV series(!), and even the odd episode of Superfriends (but I had hated it, because of the extreme dumbing down). So I was vaguely aware of the source material. (And then I started reading comics again.)

I think that's true of most people. Everyone has heard of Superman, Batman and Spider-Man, even if they haven't read them recently. Total unfamiliarity with the genre is unlikely.

On the other hand, it's likely that that was a while ago, and their tastes have evolved since. I suppose you would have to differentiate between people on the grounds of what their tastes have evolved towards. Generic brand fantasy is probably one of the worst cases.

What I would consider doing is using movies, rather than comics, as a crossover tool. There are lots of good, big budget superheroic action films out there now. Many of these are faithful enough to the genre to be a usable introduction. Hook your players on the movie versions of the X-Men and Spiderman, and then introduce them to the comics versions.

There are also some pretty decent superheroic TV series out there too. A video (or DVD, if you insist!) night or two with Birds of Prey, Mutant X, Smallville or Lois and Clark wouldn't be a bad introduction to the genre either. Heck, even Buffy or Angel would work.

All that would probably help to get them in the mood. If they still want to hack and slash then, well, uhh, try a Fantasy Hero campaign.

[zornwil]

Actually, Senator, I'd like to attach a rider to that bill.

Do you any of you as referees have problems with game psychologies running amiss simply because your players don't read comic books? I find, far, far more often than not, that the players of my Champions games have almost never read comics and that gets in the way sometimes, at the most critical junctures. What most of us take as conventions in comics (such as letting the villain get away after a long, exhausting fight resulting in the foiling of his dastardly scheme) rub certain players the wrong way, like sandpaper on a baby's bottom. Typically, it's dat 'ol D & D mentality rearing its head. The kill-'em-all-and-grab-the-treasure approach that tends to get you ostracized and put away in a comic book setting. Has anyone here been successful at getting those kinds of players to put down the latest knock-off fantasy novel in favor of JLA, New Warriors or Astro City?

I find players who don't read comics have a more interesting take, although on one or two occassions it's presented an issue.

[zornwil]

Wasn't there a poll on here????

[RDU Neil]

Wasn't there a poll on here????

Actually, this is a second thread you started with the same question, but sans poll. I was wondering what you did here. Weird computer glitch?

And by the way, when originally starting out, I remember having difficulties with players who didn't read comics... but as you say, when you tried to say "but that's not how it's done!" to them, they just looked at you funny... which was one of the things that made me begin to question "genre conventions."

If the only answer is "because it's not done that way" then, in my mind, something is wrong. It started me down twenty two years of gaming where you ask "does this convention work, or not, with a tweak, or not?" and creating my own gaming concept.

[zornwil]

Actually, this is a second thread you started with the same question, but sans poll. I was wondering what you did here. Weird computer glitch?

And by the way, when originally starting out, I remember having difficulties with players who didn't read comics... but as you say, when you tried to say "but that's not how it's done!" to them, they just looked at you funny... which was one of the things that made me begin to question "genre conventions."

If the only answer is "because it's not done that way" then, in my mind, something is wrong. It started me down twenty two years of gaming where you ask "does this convention work, or not, with a tweak, or not?" and creating my own gaming concept.

Computer glitch thing, with the server delays in response I've had regular trouble with posting new threads, and it seemed to let me post the thread again, so...

oh well!

[Supreme Serpent]

Actually, Senator, I'd like to attach a rider to that bill.

Do you any of you as referees have problems with game psychologies running amiss simply because your players don't read comic books? I find, far, far more often than not, that the players of my Champions games have almost never read comics and that gets in the way sometimes, at the most critical junctures. What most of us take as conventions in comics (such as letting the villain get away after a long, exhausting fight resulting in the foiling of his dastardly scheme) rub certain players the wrong way, like sandpaper on a baby's bottom. Typically, it's dat 'ol D & D mentality rearing its head. The kill-'em-all-and-grab-the-treasure approach that tends to get you ostracized and put away in a comic book setting. Has anyone here been successful at getting those kinds of players to put down the latest knock-off fantasy novel in favor of JLA, New Warriors or Astro City?

We have some problems with that - everybody comes in from a different "angle". Several of us are supers-comics buffs, focusing on things like FF, Avengers + associated titles, Spider-Man, X-Men, etc. esp. back in 70's-80's. Another has those influences plus more Indy comics like FemForce, DNAgents, etc. Another mostly got into Silver Surfer and weird comics. Another comes from a more anime-background. Etc.

So, a few of us want to play comic rip-offs, one wants to play extra-dimensional four-armed mystic apes, another wants to play a Guyver, etc. Can make for some interesting groups.

Overall it works, but we do have to work to stay reasonably within genre sometimes, and we do bring in some elements from everyone's influences to keep everyone happy.

[SomeAsianKid]

I'm kinda stuck in between. I like playing in the comic book world, but some reality based things can't be overlooked. My character actually paid points for a cell phone and a laptop, just because I can't see why any modern day rich super would not have either. That and every now and then there comes in the question of, hey, that new armor is great powered armored man, but why don't you use your talents to solve the energy crisis in California?

[RDU Neil]

I'm kinda stuck in between. I like playing in the comic book world, but some reality based things can't be overlooked. My character actually paid points for a cell phone and a laptop, just because I can't see why any modern day rich super would not have either. That and every now and then there comes in the question of, hey, that new armor is great powered armored man, but why don't you use your talents to solve the energy crisis in California?

Just a suggestion... but in my games, I allow any basic tech that is "over the counter" to be used by characters without spending points... I simply only allow it to be available or useful when it makes sense for the game and doesn't interfere with the drama of the story. Yes... even guns... BUT

... that equipment comes with a lot of baggage. Much tech is hardly up to the rigors of superhuman use... nor is it very reliable... guns can be traced, may have to go through background checks, etc. And players understand that "what the GM giveth, the GM can taketh away!"

What this does is allow players to avoid having to try to think up every possible modern convenience to put on their sheets, nor do they have to pay points for things that aren't crucial to character concept. Yes... you could have a player try to abuse this... trying to play a Punisher type without spending points on his basic attacks... but 1) that's just a clear indication of a player who you give the boot to... and 2) you support this by making sure players who spend the points for a HRRH radio, or Night Vision goggles, or a gun... are 99% of the time able to get them, use them without flaw, and replace them with a hand-wave if lost, broken or stolen. Those that don't pay points find themselves often without key equipment readily available "Yeah... you kept that gun you took off the mugger... but funny, I don't remember you mentioning that you cleaned it and bought ammunition to reload it... hmmmmm..."

Essentially, players who want equipment as reliable as superpowers spend points on 'em like superpowers... those that don't, don't. It's the difference between Tech-Master vs. Capt. Radio Shack.

It's never been abused in my games, and actually makes for some amusing role playing at times... plus it simplifies the game immensely.

My suggestion... try something like this... I think you'll like it.

[zornwil]

Just a suggestion... but in my games, I allow any basic tech that is "over the counter" to be used by characters without spending points... I simply only allow it to be available or useful when it makes sense for the game and doesn't interfere with the drama of the story. Yes... even guns... BUT

... that equipment comes with a lot of baggage. Much tech is hardly up to the rigors of superhuman use... nor is it very reliable... guns can be traced, may have to go through background checks, etc. And players understand that "what the GM giveth, the GM can taketh away!"

What this does is allow players to avoid having to try to think up every possible modern convenience to put on their sheets, nor do they have to pay points for things that aren't crucial to character concept. Yes... you could have a player try to abuse this... trying to play a Punisher type without spending points on his basic attacks... but 1) that's just a clear indication of a player who you give the boot to... and 2) you support this by making sure players who spend the points for a HRRH radio, or Night Vision goggles, or a gun... are 99% of the time able to get them, use them without flaw, and replace them with a hand-wave if lost, broken or stolen. Those that don't pay points find themselves often without key equipment readily available "Yeah... you kept that gun you took off the mugger... but funny, I don't remember you mentioning that you cleaned it and bought ammunition to reload it... hmmmmm..."

Essentially, players who want equipment as reliable as superpowers spend points on 'em like superpowers... those that don't, don't. It's the difference between Tech-Master vs. Capt. Radio Shack.

It's never been abused in my games, and actually makes for some amusing role playing at times... plus it simplifies the game immensely.

My suggestion... try something like this... I think you'll like it.

Which, to be fair, is in essence the "Real World" Limitation or whatever that is called (the book isn't handy).