What are these Ages exactly?

[Katherine]

Since I stepped into the "Authority" minefield accidently I've been seeing the terms used allot and I have a vague idea of what they mean, but could some explain what the precise definition of the Ages in comics are?

[Doug McCrae]

Everyone agrees that the Golden Age started in 1938 with Action Comics #1 (Superman's first appearance). Almost everyone agrees that the Silver Age began in 1956 with Showcase #4 (the Barry Allen Flash's first appearance). Beyond that it gets a lot hazier and more open to disagreement. These are the dates I use:

Golden Age 1938-19??
Silver Age 1956-1970
Bronze Age 1970-1985/6
Iron Age 1985/6-present

Some folk, Rene being one, use the Ages to refer to a style of comic rather than a time period. So by this definition, Iron Age might include any comic which is grim n' gritty, features really gratuitous T&A, is influenced by modern action movies and makes no sense. A lot of late 80s, early 90s and Image comics are Iron Age under this definition.

[Darren Watts]

I've posted these before, but here are the definitions I intend when I use the terms. Your mileage may of course vary.

Platinum Age: Pre-Superman. Includes the pulps, pre-supers comics, and oddities like Dr. Occult and Slam Bradley.

Golden Age: Begins with Action Comics #1, June, 1938 and the introduction of Superman. Ends in 1951 when All-Star Comics becomes a western and the Justice Society is no longer published. There's a brief interregnum, when Superman, Batman, Superboy and Wonder Woman are pretty much the only superheroes standing.

Silver Age: Begins with Showcase #4, fall of 1956, and the introduction of Barry Allen as the second Flash. There are two dates for when it ends, and I like both: Kurt Busiek says it's the death of Gwen Stacy in Amazing Spider-Man #121 (1973), which is the first pointless, non-instructive death of a major character in mainstream comics. The other choice is Green Lantern #85 (1971), where Green Arrow catches Speedy shooting heroin, the first example of a formerly pristine good guy sinking to such depths. Some people subdivide the Silver Age from the Marvel Age, noting that Fantastic Four #1 changed the face of comics so much that it's a separate era, but I think that's just quibbling.

Bronze Age: Picks up where the Silver Age ends, and runs til the mid-'80s and the formation of Image Studios in 1991. Everything after that is the current age, whatever you choose to call it. (I prefer to wait till it's over before naming it.) dw

[st barbara]

To "Darren Watts" I tend to agree with your definitions pretty much; although I don't know what you would call the current"age". Although, as you said, we probably shouldn't name it till it is past. "The Age Of Diversity"is one name that I have already seen for the current era.

[Lord Liaden]

You often see the post-'80's period referred to as the "Iron Age" (maintaining the classical analogy), when comic protagonists were more violent and morality was much greyer.

The end of the millennium saw a resurgence of characters and themes from earlier ages, but filtered through a new sensibility of all the changes that comics characters have undergone since. I've toyed with the notion of calling the current period the "Steel Age," for its sense of alloying different elements.

[Jeff T.]

Everyone agrees that the Golden Age started in 1938 with Action Comics #1 (Superman's first appearance). Almost everyone agrees that the Silver Age began in 1956 with Showcase #4 (the Barry Allen Flash's first appearance).

I generall go with that and then the Bronze Age begins with the death of Gwen Stacy and the Iron Age begins with the appearance of Cable and X-Force.

[Hermit]

You often see the post-'80's period referred to as the "Iron Age" (maintaining the classical analogy), when comic protagonists were more violent and morality was much greyer.

The end of the millennium saw a resurgence of characters and themes from earlier ages, but filtered through a new sensibility of all the changes that comics characters have undergone since. I've toyed with the notion of calling the current period the "Steel Age," for its sense of alloying different elements.

I lean towards that myself LL. There was something of a counter movement against the hardness of the Iron Age in recent years, and the mixes resulting from it have been pretty darn good

[JeffreyWKramer]

I personally think the Silver Age started a tiny bit before SHOWCASE #4, with the first appearances of the Martian Manhunter and the Legion of Super-Heroes (the first significant "new" comics heroes in many a moon), but I think SHOWCASE #4 is when it really became clear something new was afoot.

I see the Bronze Age ending well before the appearance of Cable and the rise of the Image guys. I date it to CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS, WATCHMEN and THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS (late 1985-1986), with precursors visible a few years earlier in Frank Miller's first solo issue of DAREDEVIL (the one that introduced Elektra).

[GestaltBennie]

My own inclination is to start the Iron Age at Daredevil 181 myself (the death of Elektra); it was one of the first books that I remember the code refusing to approve, it felt like a groundbreaker at the time, and certainly much of the graphic violence that followed seemed to draw on that issue as its inspiration.

[Metaphysician]

Which shows in miniature the problem with most of the Iron Age: they were inspired by several great works, but drew all the wrong and worst lessons from them.

[psm]

Which shows in miniature the problem with most of the Iron Age: they were inspired by several great works, but drew all the wrong and worst lessons from them.

How so?

[JeffreyWKramer]

How so?

Well, the big problem is that many modern writers mistakenly confuse Iron Age concepts with maturity, and graft them onto inappropriate characters and concepts. Batman and Daredevil were both fine choices for making more serious and morally grey, and in Batman's case, it represented a return of sorts to the character's earliest incarnations. The same idea works less well with characters like the Atom, Flash and Adam Strange, who were all about wonder and "whiz-bang, anything can happen," and it doesn't work worth a damn with characters that are supposed to be fun, innocent and whimsical. A grim and gritty Elongated Man or Mary Marvel isn't what comics needs.

As a related problem, just as all superhero comics got "bronzed" to some extent, the Iron Age mentality is starting to permeate everything. Done selectively, this was pretty good - John Ostrander's SUICIDE SQUAD was a good example - but it sort of defeats (or at very least greatly alters) the concept of characters like Superman and Captain America. Really, post-9/11, I think the *last* thing comics needed was a morally muddled, pessimistic take on Captain America. I'm glad Cap didn't turn all jingoistic and start knockin' A-Rabs around for Uncle Sam, but the demoralized, whiny Cap we've mostly seen for the past couple years really doesn't cut it, IMHO.

One problem here is that many of the great Iron Age works were strongly inspired by the Silver/Bronze Age books, and offered a radically different take on their subject matter - examples include MIRACLEMAN (Captain Marvel), WATCHMEN (the Charlton characters, such as the Question, Blue Beetle and Captain Atom) and THE AUTHORITY (JLA) - but as the Iron Age has progressed, the system-feedback has mutated the originals, such that rather than being what they are in their own right, the comics that inspired the Iron Age have become part of it - in other words, they have become copies of knock-offs. Bizarro duplicates, if you will. I'd rather the Avengers and JLA continue to be the Avengers and JLA, rather than seeing soulless, hybrid crap like JLA ELITE.

[OddHat]

My main problem with the Iron Age has been that (as mentioned in another thread) excessive pessemism and perversity are as absurdly unrealistic as endless squeeky-clean optimism, maybe more so, and are much less fun to read. I never liked some of the sub-text in Silver Age Superman, and the physics of it all bugged the heck out of me, but as a kid I could rationalize haow a world like that would keep functioning. OK, some of the criminals that never committed any real crimes got annoying, and some of the real problems that were addressed were handled badly, but you could imagine people in Metropolis waking up and going to work every day. Miracleman, one of the first and best true Iron Age titles, was incredible; a world that really made sense from its own internal point of view, at least until the Utopia period. Watchmen made a sort of internal sense as well. Dark Knight I disliked; the logic of the world was poorly thought out, and Superman was made into a submissive idiot to allow the story to work. Things got worse from there, to the point that it was impossible to understand how most Iron Age worlds hung together at all. Neil Gainman's Sandman run was the last Iron-Bronze series I really enjoyed. Recently I read the Ellis run on Storm Watch and the Authority, and his fantastic Plannetary, and I have been convinced that there is worthwhile Iron Age stuff out there, but one look at Authority after Ellis left makes it clear just how different "real-world with Supers" is from "teen-power-fantasy dystopia with Supers."

[psm]

I'm not sure I totally agree with your assessment JeffreyWKramer (may I call you Jeff?). I agree that alot of characters shouldn't be put into a 'grim and gritty' scenario. However, I think that there is more to Iron Age concepts than 'grim and gritty'. The real problem might lay in the inability of writers (and obviously publishing companies) to ascertain what makes up an Iron Age story (or Steel). They can't separate the wheat from the chaff (as my Dad would put it). Honestly, there seems to be little difference between the Bronze age and now besides surface and execution. I think that the majority of characters could be done in a more mature format with out losing their core. Of course if characters were ever retired this would never be a problem but that is an entirely new thread.

[psm]

double post, sorry