Help with Armor-wearing character

[dei1c3]

One of the players in my campaign is creating a new character in the spirit of Iron Man. He wants to have several different sets of armor, each with different set of characteristics and powers.

As an example:

Main suit: Adds 25 STR, 15 PD/ED, 18 DEX, and has a variety of offensive and sensory powers.

Heavy-duty suit: Adds 50 STR, 20 PD/ED but only 10 DEX, and has only a few, primarily defensive powers.

Stealth suit: Only Adds 10 STR and 5 PD/ED, but 23 DEX and 1 SPD, and has several stealth- and movement-based powers.

What would be the correct way to model this this?

The player has tried to convince me that it's a Multi-form, but that doesn't seem right to me since the character will have the same mental capacity and personality regardless of which suit he's wearing.

At the same time, trying to fit each the various suit configurations into a Multipower seems too...I don't know...bulky for this.

Thoughts?

Thanks.

[Powerhouse]

How about mimicking it with a large gadget pool?

[Hugh Neilson]

Multi-form makes sense to me. Different suit = different form.

Another approach would be to build each suit of armor as a vehicle and use the 5 points = twice as many rule to have multiple suits.

A third approach would be a "base suit" plus modular attachments (multipower that only changes slots at base, or the gadget pool previously suggested).

[philnicau]

i agree with powerhouse a gadgetry power pool is probably the way to go, each slot could be a different suit of armour, with the pool having the following limitations
all slots must be "Only in Hero ID"
can only change slots at Base
takes extra time 1 min+ to change slots

[Metaphysician]

The huge VPP option is certainly viable, but I would prefer to put all universal features as normal purchases, and then put alternate suit configurations as part of a big multipower with appropriate limits.

[freakboy6117]

I knocked up a quick multi power

if you buy the basic stats at the lowest level you wnat then use thsi multipower to configure the armour then habve a seperate multipower armour subsystems or what ever with the attack powers and more movement sensory and stealth powers.

26 Multipower, 85-point reserve, (85 Active Points); Extra Time (1 Minute, Character May Take No Other Actions, -1 3/4); all slots OIF (armour; -1/2)
3m Flight 10", Usable Underwater (+1/4) (25 Active Points); OIF (armour; -1/2) 2
1m Clinging (51 STR) (10 Active Points); OIF (armour; -1/2)
1m Leaping +10" (20" forward, 10" upward) (10 Active Points); OIF (armour; -1/2) 1
1m Running +5" (11" total) (10 Active Points); OIF (armour; -1/2) 1
6m +40 STR (40 Active Points); No Figured Characteristics (-1/2), OIF (armour; -1/2) Running +5" (11" total) (10 Active Points); OIF (armour; -1/2) 4
4m Armor (15 PD/15 ED) (45 Active Points); OIF (armour; -1/2)
6m +13 DEX (39 Active Points); No Figured Characteristics (-1/2), OIF (armour; -1/2)

[dei1c3]

First off, thanks for the replies. This board is such a great source of help.

Second, some kind of VPP was the only idea I had really come up with before posting, but I wasn't sure what type of limitations to put on it and what the values of the limitations should be.

That said, I'm open to the idea of purchasing the "baseline" characteristics and powers normally and using a MP for the rest as mentioned in the previous two posts, but I wonder: How would you limit which "combinations" are available?

For instance, I look at the MP you mocked up, freakboy, and it looks to me like the hero could configure his armor to have any level of extra STR from 0 to 40. This isn't really what the player is looking for as he only wants to have 3 or so configurations available (or more accurately, he only wants to pay for that many).

Am I misreading it or would another limiation be need and if so, what would it be?

Thanks.

[freakboy6117]

you could add the linked limitation to the weapon module though hero designer doesnt like that it would seem to be the sensible one to use butyou coudl always use conditional power something liek only when armour multipower is set up as follows.

if the player would prefer only 3 type of armour just buy the diffrent charecteristic levels as ultra slots it actually comes out slightly cheaper that way 42 points compared to 48 you could use the extra pointsto bump up the movement powers or make it so the other versions had one of the minor movement powers too.

26 Multipower, 85-point reserve, (85 Active Points); Extra Time (1 Minute, Character May Take No Other Actions, -1 3/4); all slots OIF (-1/2)
2u +40 STR (40 Active Points); No Figured Characteristics (-1/2), OIF (-1/2) 4
1u +15 STR (15 Active Points); No Figured Characteristics (-1/2), OIF (-1/2) 1
1u Clinging (normal STR) (10 Active Points); OIF (-1/2)
2u Flight 10", Usable Underwater (+1/4) (25 Active Points); OIF (-1/2) 2
1u Leaping +10" (23" forward, 11 1/2" upward) (10 Active Points); OIF (-1/2) 1
1u Running +5" (11" total) (10 Active Points); OIF (-1/2) 1
2u +13 DEX (39 Active Points); No Figured Characteristics (-1/2), OIF (-1/2)
1u +8 DEX (24 Active Points); No Figured Characteristics (-1/2), OIF (-1/2)
3u Armor (15 PD/15 ED) (45 Active Points); OIF (-1/2)
2u Armor (10 PD/10 ED) (30 Active Points); OIF (-1/2)

[Acroyear]

Use a variation of the lockout lim (generic lims are usually easy to value). Instead of the lockout focusing on a power to power basis, it works on a group of powers to another group of powers. The MP can only be changed at the proper time (like in the base) or even on the fly, as long as the whole set changes (I think the cartoon version, IM could change armor with some sort of satellite teleporter or something, right?)

Standardized powers that are common to all suits could be in the MP, too, they just wouldn't use the lockout.

[Doc Democracy]

That said, I'm open to the idea of purchasing the "baseline" characteristics and powers normally and using a MP for the rest as mentioned in the previous two posts, but I wonder: How would you limit which "combinations" are available?

To address the question of only having three configurations available I would probably use the original multipower

26 Multipower, 85-point reserve, (85 Active Points); Extra Time (1 Minute, Character May Take No Other Actions, -1 3/4); all slots OIF (armour; -1/2)
3m Flight 10", Usable Underwater (+1/4) (25 Active Points); OIF (armour; -1/2) 2
1m Clinging (51 STR) (10 Active Points); OIF (armour; -1/2)
1m Leaping +10" (20" forward, 10" upward) (10 Active Points); OIF (armour; -1/2) 1
1m Running +5" (11" total) (10 Active Points); OIF (armour; -1/2) 1
6m +40 STR (40 Active Points); No Figured Characteristics (-1/2), OIF (armour; -1/2) Running +5" (11" total) (10 Active Points); OIF (armour; -1/2) 4
4m Armor (15 PD/15 ED) (45 Active Points); OIF (armour; -1/2)
6m +13 DEX (39 Active Points); No Figured Characteristics (-1/2), OIF (armour; -1/2)

But I would put a limitation on the reserve - only three configurations possible (-1) that would take the cost of the reserve down to 20 points. I would allow the player to have the three configurations written down and be able to change those configurations between scenarios to reflect the tinkering that such gadgeteers always seem to be making.

Doc

[Hugh Neilson]

if the player would prefer only 3 type of armour just buy the diffrent charecteristic levels as ultra slots it actually comes out slightly cheaper that way 42 points compared to 48 you could use the extra pointsto bump up the movement powers or make it so the other versions had one of the minor movement powers too.

You could simply give the multipower three slots, one for each configuration, with each slot holding all the powers of one configuration. With each slot an Ultra, he has to select one configuration.

There is one troubling factor about the proposed build, however. I agree with the OIF: Armour (or OIHID, or whatever limit you want to simulate the armour itself).

However, -1 3/4 for "1 minute to activate" implies he must spoend a minute each time he wants to activate any power in the pool. The halved limitation for "one minute to activate, after which it can be used as desired" , or "slots may onl,y be changed at home base" (like the VPP limitation) may make more sense.

Even then, however the character is getting a limitation on the Multipower that would not have been available had he purchased only one suit of armor.

If he bought 85 points worth of powers, OIF Armour (ie he has only one suit), he would pay 85/1.5 = 57. The example below provides him with much greater versatility, at a proposed cost of 26 points. Is that reasonable?

Before you answer, consider this: why would I build a character who has only one suit of armor? By building it as a MP with two suits, one of which I will never use, I would get a substantial savings in points. Perhaps the limitation should apply only on the individual slots, and not on the reserve. This is effectively how a VPP would get its savings.

I might be more inclined to allow the limitation if the character was otherwise able to change slots in the field (ie each power in the MP would require a minute to activate, or at half limitation value, a minute to change slots or activate one slot), but this would mean he defaults to having no slots active, and would need to spend a minute to activate one after being knocked out or stunned (which shuts down all nonpersistent powers), probably not the desired result.

[freakboy6117]

right hugh i keep forgetting about compound powers doh.

its a private modifier on the pool i thought those only applied when changing the pool but i see your point it does seem unfair so i had another go more eexpenive but less dodgy.




42 Multipower, 85-point reserve, (85 Active Points); Limited Power Power loses about a third of its effectiveness (multipower can only be changed in armoury; -1/2); all slots OIF (armour suit; -1/2)

5u 3

(Total: 85 Active Cost, 50 Real Cost) +40 STR (40 Active Points); No Figured Characteristics (-1/2), OIF (armour suit; -1/2) (Real Cost: 20) <b>plus</b> Armor (15 PD/15 ED) (45 Active Points); OIF (armour suit; -1/2) (Real Cost: 30)
5u
(Total: 84 Active Cost, 47 Real Cost) +15 BODY (30 Active Points); No Figured Characteristics (-1/2), OIF (armour suit; -1/2) (Real Cost: 15) <b>plus</b> +8 DEX (24 Active Points); No Figured Characteristics (-1/2), OIF (armour suit; -1/2) (Real Cost: 12) <b>plus</b> Armor (10 PD/10 ED) (30 Active Points); OIF (armour suit; -1/2) (Real Cost: 20)

5u 4
(Total: 85 Active Cost, 50 Real Cost) +13 DEX (39 Active Points); No Figured Characteristics (-1/2), OIF (armour suit; -1/2) (Real Cost: 19) <b>plus</b> Flight 10", Usable Underwater (+1/4) (25 Active Points); OIF (armour suit; -1/2) (Real Cost: 17) <b>plus</b> Clinging (54 STR) (11 Active Points); OIF (armour suit; -1/2) (Real Cost: 7) <b>plus</b> Running +5" (11" total) (10 Active Points); OIF (armour suit; -1/2) (Real Cost: 7)

[jackalope]

The player has tried to convince me that it's a Multi-form, but that doesn't seem right to me since the character will have the same mental capacity and personality regardless of which suit he's wearing.

Have him design his character without any armor on. Set his unarmored strength, dex, int, pre, his inherent skills and talents, etc. Each form in his multiform must reflect that base character, must have those same skills, the same base statistics, etc.

When he buys the Multiform power itself, it should be bought with the limitations Extra Time (I'd say 20 minutes to an hour), and Limited Power: Can only Change Forms At HQ (-1). That way he can't just change armor suits in the middle of a battle. Unless you want him to do that.

[Hugh Neilson]

42 Multipower, 85-point reserve, (85 Active Points); Limited Power Power loses about a third of its effectiveness (multipower can only be changed in armoury; -1/2); all slots OIF (armour suit; -1/2)

5u 3

(Total: 85 Active Cost, 50 Real Cost) +40 STR (40 Active Points); No Figured Characteristics (-1/2), OIF (armour suit; -1/2) (Real Cost: 20) <b>plus</b> Armor (15 PD/15 ED) (45 Active Points); OIF (armour suit; -1/2) (Real Cost: 30)
5u
(Total: 84 Active Cost, 47 Real Cost) +15 BODY (30 Active Points); No Figured Characteristics (-1/2), OIF (armour suit; -1/2) (Real Cost: 15) <b>plus</b> +8 DEX (24 Active Points); No Figured Characteristics (-1/2), OIF (armour suit; -1/2) (Real Cost: 12) <b>plus</b> Armor (10 PD/10 ED) (30 Active Points); OIF (armour suit; -1/2) (Real Cost: 20)

5u 4
(Total: 85 Active Cost, 50 Real Cost) +13 DEX (39 Active Points); No Figured Characteristics (-1/2), OIF (armour suit; -1/2) (Real Cost: 19) <b>plus</b> Flight 10", Usable Underwater (+1/4) (25 Active Points); OIF (armour suit; -1/2) (Real Cost: 17) <b>plus</b> Clinging (54 STR) (11 Active Points); OIF (armour suit; -1/2) (Real Cost: 7) <b>plus</b> Running +5" (11" total) (10 Active Points); OIF (armour suit; -1/2) (Real Cost: 7)

See, I have the same problem with this (tesuji sold me on the theory, at least in this kind of application). This character pays 57 points for access to three suits of armor which he can only change at home.

If Locked In Armor Man wants to have only:

+40 STR (40 Active Points); , OIF (armour suit; -1/2) (Real Cost: 27) <b>plus</b> Armor (15 PD/15 ED) (45 Active Points); OIF (armour suit; -1/2),

he has to pay the same 57 points. Is that fair?

It gets worse if we compare without any limitations.

Modular Man pay 85/1.5= 57 points + 3 slots at 9 each = 57 + 27 = 84 points for three configurations. Straight Power Man pays 85 points to have one configuration, and doesn't have the option of going back to base and changing his powers. Is that fair?

Now, if it's assumed Modular Man starts with NO module, and actually has to get to the base after the adventure starts, it may be reasonable (he's really not getting enough of a limit then), but if he gets to set the multipower at the outset, then he can get the same result as Straight Power Man, save a point and still have the option of swapping out for other components.

How would a VPP cost out? It would have OIF Armor and Only Change at Base on its control cost, for a total of -1. Each power would have OIF Armor. Slot 1 needs 50 rp and 45 AP. Slot 2 needs 47 rp and 30 AP. Slot 3 needs 50 rp and 39 ap. So we need:

50 pt VPP
Control cost 25/2 = 12 (OIF and Only CHanges at Base).

Net cost 62 points. I'd go this route. One more slot's going to equalize the cost, and this will provide greater flexibility for future modularization. As GM, I would require each suit be designed and approved before the game session.

[dei1c3]

Thanks again for everyone's contributions. The fact that this spawned something of a debate makes me feel better about the fact that I wasn't able to figure it out on my own (I've only been playing this game since first edition, after all).

Early in the thread, I was starting to lean towards the MP angle, but your last post has sold me on the VPP, Hugh. My ultimate goal here is to have him pay for the cost of the characteristics/powers for any one of the suits plus a little bit more to reflect the flexibility being able to go back to the base and change suits gives him. I think if I crunch the numbers right once we figure out exactly what each suit can do, the VPP should accomplish this. And I can always "tweak" the values of the limitations if need be.

Thanks again, guys