Sell me on DC

[lazarus]

Should I buy it? How good is the forensics chapter? Really, that's the main thing I'd use from the book, so is it good enough to warrant 36 CAN$ or not?

I'd still end up reading it cover-to-cover...

Laz

[Cpt.Storm]

The Forensics chapter is extremely well done! But the rest of the book is fantastic as well. The Super Skills are cool and the equipment section is superb. If you like street-level hero games this book is a must-have.

In my opinion, Steve has outdone himself with this book. The writing is tight and interesting and the layout is great as well. If it sounds like I'm gushing I'm sorry. I just really like this book!

Cpt. Storm

[CourtFool]

Have you checked out Arcady's review?

[lazarus]

I have read Arcady's review. And in terms of the book, I know the scope. Really, all I want to know is how well done is the forensics section - how well researched, what it covers, etc.

I'm sure a whole review could be done on that chapter, as it's probably longer than some books

Laz

[Storn]

an okay cover?

That's it. Thats all I have to offer to the discussion, because i haven't seen it yet. I'll be getting my comp copies soon, I'm sure... but the only thing I know is the cover and a few interior illos.

Okay, maybe that ain't a good selling point. Next?

[Eosin]

an okay cover?

I think it is a pretty sweet looking cover.

[Cpt.Storm]

an okay cover?

That's it. Thats all I have to offer to the discussion, because i haven't seen it yet. I'll be getting my comp copies soon, I'm sure... but the only thing I know is the cover and a few interior illos.

Okay, maybe that ain't a good selling point. Next?

Storn,

You undersell yourself! That cover kicks major booty! I have always loved Harbinger and you personified the character perfectly if you ask me. Thanks for the great picture!

Cpt. Storm

[Cpt.Storm]

I have read Arcady's review. And in terms of the book, I know the scope. Really, all I want to know is how well done is the forensics section - how well researched, what it covers, etc.

I'm sure a whole review could be done on that chapter, as it's probably longer than some books

Laz

Though I haven't read the entire chapter, it looks like it covers most of the the stuff I see on CSI or CSI:Miami. Does that help?

Cpt. Storm

[lazarus]

Though I haven't read the entire chapter, it looks like it covers most of the the stuff I see on CSI or CSI:Miami. Does that help?

Cpt. Storm

It does, mightily.

I think it might be worth buying for that chapter alone...

Laz

[Steve Long]

Really, all I want to know is how well done is the forensics section - how well researched, what it covers, etc.

Well, I don't know if this helps or not, but it condenses information from, by my quick estimate, something like $600 US or more of books on forensics and criminology. Some of these are not even books or papers generally available to the public; they're things I've gotten through my contacts as an attorney, and so on.

Here's the relevant section of the Bibliography:

FORENSICS, CRIMINALISTICS, AND CRIMINOLOGY
Babits, L. E. “The Frustration Of Jane Bones.” Abstract, Symposium on Forensic Archaeology, 1995 Society for Historical Archaeology Meeting
Baden, Michael. Dead Reckoning
—Unnatural Death
Bailey, William, ed. The Encyclopedia Of Police Science
Cameron, Ellen. Understanding Graphology
Cohen, Bruce, ed. Crime In America
DiMaio, Dominick and Vincent DiMaio. Forensic Pathology
Erzinçlioglu, Zakaria. Forensics
FBI Law Enforcement Bulletin
Fisher, David. Hard Evidence
Goff, Lee. A Fly For The Prosecution: How Insect Evidence Helps Solve Crimes
James, Stuart and Jon Nordby, eds. Forensic Science
Kerr, Douglas, M.D. Forensic Medicine, 6th Ed.
Kurian, George. The World Encyclopedia Of Police Forces And Penal Systems
Kurland, Michael. How To Solve A Murder
Lee, Henry and Timothy Palmbach and Marilyn Miller. Henry Lee’s Crime Scene Handbook
Maples, William, M.D. and Michael Browning. Dead Men Do Tell Tales
Marriner, Brian. On Death’s Bloody Trail
Micheels, Peter. Heat
Miller, Hugh. Proclaimed In Blood: True Crimes Solved By Forensic Scientists
—Traces Of Guilt
North Carolina Bar Foundation. Computer Forensics: An Evolution
Page, David, M.D. Body Trauma: A Writer’s Guide to Wounds and Injuries
Ragle, Larry. Crime Scene
Roth, Martin. The Writer’s Complete Crime Reference Book
Saferstein, Richard. Criminalistics: An Introduction To Forensic Science, 5th Ed.
Siegel, Larry. Criminology, 2nd Ed.
Smyth, Frank. Cause Of Death
Spitz, Werner, M.D., and Russell Fisher, M.D., eds. Medico-Legal Investigation Of Death
Ubelaker, Douglas, and Henry Scammell. Bones: A Forensic Detective’s Casebook
Wilson, Keith, M.D. Cause Of Death: A Writer’s Guide To Death, Murder, And Forensic Medicine
Wingate, Anne. Scene Of The Crime: A Writer’s Guide To Crime-Scene Investigations
Zonderman, Jon. Beyond The Crime Lab

[Cpt.Storm]

Yikes!! Well, like I said, just like CSI but more... hehe
Cpt. Storm

[Wildcat]

Storn,

You undersell yourself! That cover kicks major booty! I have always loved Harbinger and you personified the character perfectly if you ask me. Thanks for the great picture!

Cpt. Storm

I'll Second that... Storn this Cover is Fantastic I really think it's the perfect cover to show the 5th Ed version of DC is not just street level Supers like in 4th... Harbinger now looks less Superpowered and more of a Heroic levle of a character... GREAT job!!

OH yeah - and as for DC... it is the Best book I've seen since FREd came out Steve you ROCK (I think I said this before, but when it comes to DC... it's worth Repeating)
WC

[lazarus]

I think this may be one of my purchases, then.

Laz

[KA.]

Lazarus,
Just a question, why would the Forensics chapter be the only part you would use?

I don't want to sway your decision, especially not in the wrong direction, (whatever that is) so I would like to know more about your expectations.

The coverage of Forensics is a bit more detailed than what was presented in the 4th Ed. of Dark Champions, and it covers about everything you would need to be able to intelligently refer to forensics in an RPG, but if you are looking for an in-depth forensics textbook, you need to look elsewhere.

In other words, if you want to be able to know the names of the tests that characters could perform, and what those tests would be likely to reveal, DC covers that just fine.

If you are planning a "Forensics" campaign, where 80% of your players' time is spent at either a Crime Scene or in a Lab, you are going to want way more detail than this.

The Forensics chapter is almost 20 pages long, and the topic is mentioned here and there in the rest of the text, but the book itself is 372 including index, so obviously Forensics is only one component.

If you are expecting a massive tome of Forensics goodness, you are going to be disappointed.

Not to say that the book is anything less than excellent, I would just hate to see anyone buy it, and then "bash" it, because they thought it was something it isn't.

Hope this helps, and if you need more detail (that in no way impinges on DOJ's intellectual property ) feel free to ask.

KA.

[lazarus]

Thanks, KA, that's what I wanted to know about the Forensics chapter - how long it was, really. I know that it'll go fairly in depth, because that's what Steve does.

I don't remember saying that it would be the only chapter I'd use, but it's the one that would be the selling point for me - I tend to like forensic stuff.

So long as it's got enough covered that I can "fake it" - have it cinematically appropriate - then it's all good.

But you're right - based on what they were saying, I was getting a bit of a wrong impression; I figured that it would be more like 40-50 pages.

I'll take a look at it, but I'm heavily weighed in favour of it now.

Laz