Custom Skill Enhancers

[Monolith]

Originally posted by ChipDancer
Maybe ye could ask the people here to help ye? I mean after all it is a very large community and wut ye may be having an issue accomplishing may be easy for someone else who has already tackled the issue?

If tis a template ye are looking to make fer yer custome campaign den why not ask for help from the general community? Me sure someone would like to aid ye!

I cannot help him with the rewrite of the template (the option Dan suggested), but I would be happy to write up the Skills with the -1 Adder and the new Skill Enhancers option I suggested and put them into a Prefab for him. I could easily do that in a day.

[ChipDancer]

WOW!!! :O

Nice people already replying!!!



Tis feel so warm in here...

[joeteller]

Originally posted by Monolith
Joe, I certainly agree that Dan is rough around the edges when it comes to customer interaction (he gets defensive and argumentative too quickly), but you have to understand that Hero Games made a decision that the software would support the official rules. Not your mutant rules, not my mutant rules, not Dan's mutant rules (and if he plays the game he probably has house rules too).

There are plenty of work-arounds here. You could add a -1 Adder to each skill called DEX Enhancer (or whatever type of enhancer you need); you could even set these up as Prefabs so characters would not have to create them every time.

Next you could just buy the skills as Custom Skills, and thus make the point cost whatever you want it to be.

Finally you could even use another Skill Enhancer (one that you do not normally use in the game like Jack Of All Trades) and then rename all those skill associated with that enhancer to whatever you want (not sure if that works, but I think it might).

I am sorry the system is not to your 100% liking, but it can do pretty much anything you want it to do if you just take the time to think it through.

The problem is that these fixes are fine if it was just me using the program, but its not. I have a collection of players who are being sat down at my machine to put together their PCs in a reasonable period of time, and who are not programmers and who are not long time Hero players.

They understand checklists, click-n-plug and pull down menus. They are not going to know all the inns and outs of getting the various custom options to work the way they want. They are certainly not going to sit down and hack code.

Additionally these 'fixes' slow down the process. The longer it takes to do something the less time I have elsewhere. If the software allowed me to fix things once and not have to go back and do it again and again I wouldn't complain (thats what the prefabs do and thats fine by me as to how this should work).

Theres also a matter of the fact of how Hero Designer is advertised (from the Hero Site):

"Designed specifically for the HERO System©, Hero Designer has an intuitive, easy-to-use interface and a powerful, template-driven structure that provide the flexibility and functionality you expect from a Hero product."

"Customizable Game Elements
You can customize any game element, including the costs of Characteristics and Powers or the formulas for calculating Figured Characteristics."

Prefab Files
Using Prefab Files, you can create lists of pre-generated Powers and abilities, such as Package Deals. "

See, to me those descriptions say that the program SHOULD be able to handle the things I need, and do so in a way that I can create Prefabs to handle them so I don't need to re-invent the wheel every time I build a character.

The flexibility and functionality I expect is evidently a lot greater, somehow, than they think it should. Even though the adding of additional Skill Enhancers is an accepted rule change according to the basic rule book (pg 353). Evidently using OPTIONS from the rule book is being too flexible by Dan's assessment.

Then again Dan says that the flexibility, prefabs etc were not part of the original spec for the program.... which is again weird considering the advertising they've been making since the begining.

Thanks for your response.

Joe

[Monolith]

Originally posted by joeteller
Prefab Files
Using Prefab Files, you can create lists of pre-generated Powers and abilities, such as Package Deals. "

See, to me those descriptions say that the program SHOULD be able to handle the things I need, and do so in a way that I can create Prefabs to handle them so I don't need to re-invent the wheel every time I build a character.

Joe, I could set this up as a Prefab so that the only thing the players would have to do is pick the skills off a list. That's it!

I will be gone for a few hours, but if you email me the lists you need done, I will set up a Prefab and send it back to you sometime tomorrow. If you don't like it, nothing lost. If you do like it, problem solved. My email address is: Monolith@oco.net . I'll be happy to help.

[tiger]

Originally posted by joeteller
You may know programming, but you don't seem to know basic business concepts of customer support from what I've seen.

MMM

I really can't understand Dans position at all. He's only spent vasts amount of time building a program. Then he releases it and spend even more time to fix any PROBLEM that the program has.

He has sent out numerous updates fixing and improving the program. He's answered numerous questins, help people modify templetes to suit them. Only to have some people complain and insult his business skills.

He has made the best character generating program I've seen or heard about. Even people who don't play the system like it. I've heard several people who play the D20 system say they wish he'd make one for their system.

Reminds me of two sayings:

You can please some of the people some of the time, but you can't please all the people all the time

No good deed goes unpunished


Nope can't understand his position at all.

PS: Dan keep up the great work

[Simon]

Originally posted by dsimon
If you want to edit any of them, you'll need to edit the template. Follow the instructions for editing templates contained in the documentation. [/B]

Joe - If you'd stop feeling sorry for yourself and listen to what I've been telling you, you'd find a perfectly workable solution.

Read the documentation on editing templates. You can edit the way that Skill Enhancers work within the template. You can change what abilities they affect within the template. You can change the display value for them. You can change the cost for them. You can change the point savings for them.

The only thing that you cannot do is add in additional Skill Enhancers. For this you would simply create a list and assign a Custom Adder to each ability in that list that you want to be affected by your "custom enhancer". As has been suggested, you can then save this as a prefab and have your players use that prefab when creating characters.

If you edit the template, you would have your players use that template when creating characters.

If you'd stop complaining about what the application "can't do", you'd realize that there's very little that cannot be done with the application.

Are some house rules more difficult to accomplish? Absolutely. This is not a "generic character generator". The primary intention of the application is to allow people who are not intimately familiar with the rules to create characters as easily as possible. <i>Within the rules</i>. The customization and support for "house rules" is secondary, but still fully possible. The application is <b>extremely</b> customizable.

[JmOz]

Originally posted by tiger
MMM

I really can't understand Dans position at all. He's only spent vasts amount of time building a program. Then he releases it and spend even more time to fix any PROBLEM that the program has.

He has sent out numerous updates fixing and improving the program. He's answered numerous questins, help people modify templetes to suit them. Only to have some people complain and insult his business skills.

He has made the best character generating program I've seen or heard about. Even people who don't play the system like it. I've heard several people who play the D20 system say they wish he'd make one for their system.

Reminds me of two sayings:

You can please some of the people some of the time, but you can't please all the people all the time

No good deed goes unpunished


Nope can't understand his position at all.

PS: Dan keep up the great work

Let me say a few things to this: Dan is a great programer from what I see, I have a few differences in the design mentality (The damage shield thing I mentioned above for example), but the program is an excelent piece of software that does what it is designed to do.

However I will CHALANGE you to find one person who thinks that the way Dan treats customers is appropritae (other than himself). I am not saying he does not have the right to his anger, but all you need to do is look up and see how he responded to me, joe, or many others to realise that he needs to learn to keep it to himself when dealing with customers.

[JmOz]

Originally posted by dsimon
Yes...you have.

You've made your opinions of me clear in the past.

Frankly, I really don't care. I will continue to treat people the way I see them as treating me.

I will also continue to decide what areas of "customization" are added into the product. The original specification did not state <b>any</b> level of customization....this is all "extra" work on my part.

Don't care if you care, truth is truth, opinion is opinion, and the truth of my opinion on your customer service skills is well known, and while maybe not universaly accepted, have at least enough support to show merrit.

Second, here is a quote from you and I want you to think about the following question: How much harder would it have been to leave off the first paragraph, and what would you as a customer feel about it with the first paragraph and with out the first paragraph.

Joe - If you'd stop feeling sorry for yourself and listen to what I've been telling you, you'd find a perfectly workable solution.

Read the documentation on editing templates. You can edit the way that Skill Enhancers work within the template. You can change what abilities they affect within the template. You can change the display value for them. You can change the cost for them. You can change the point savings for them.

The only thing that you cannot do is add in additional Skill Enhancers. For this you would simply create a list and assign a Custom Adder to each ability in that list that you want to be affected by your "custom enhancer". As has been suggested, you can then save this as a prefab and have your players use that prefab when creating characters.

If you edit the template, you would have your players use that template when creating characters.

If you'd stop complaining about what the application "can't do", you'd realize that there's very little that cannot be done with the application.

Are some house rules more difficult to accomplish? Absolutely. This is not a "generic character generator". The primary intention of the application is to allow people who are not intimately familiar with the rules to create characters as easily as possible. Within the rules. The customization and support for "house rules" is secondary, but still fully possible. The application is extremely customizable.

Also consider how you would like being called a fool, being ridiculed on a public board, and essentialy being treated like an idiot (something I have seen you do to others). Say what you will about my rants against your customer service skills, but I have NEVER struck at you personaly (saying your an idiot, fool, etc...) nor have I in memory said anything about your primary skills, that of a programer, except to say that I would have designed parts differently as far as the interface goes (in my opinion most people would do SOME things differently, while those things will most likely be differently from person to person).

Just think about it

[Chaosliege]

Originally posted by JmOz

However I will CHALANGE you to find one person who thinks that the way Dan treats customers is appropritae (other than himself). I am not saying he does not have the right to his anger, but all you need to do is look up and see how he responded to me, joe, or many others to realise that he needs to learn to keep it to himself when dealing with customers.

Ok. I do. Dan has been very helpful to any one who treats him with respect. Some people seem to be of the opinion that because they are a customer, they can treat people however they want with no reporcusions(sp). Dan isn't just an "employee", he's a person. He started this with the simple comment that the feature this guy wants is available through a template edit. He told where the directions for editing templates are. Then this guy goes on a tirade because he's not a programmer. RESPECT people, or expect none in return.

[tiger]

Originally posted by JmOz
Just think about it

Well is his "tone" extremely professional, maybe not.

But tell you what Jim, you spend the number of hours he has on a program, only to have people complain about it and tell you that unless you change it to fit them others won't buy it. Then we'll see how your "tone" is.

[tiger]

Originally posted by Chaosliege
RESPECT people, or expect none in return.

Well said!

[EternityShard]

Originally posted by JmOz
Also consider how you would like being called a fool, being ridiculed on a public board, and essentialy being treated like an idiot (something I have seen you do to others).

He's been called a fool (or similar) a number of times on the public boards. I've seen it. Dan didn't get upset until he was insulted.

How hurt and upset would you be if someone insulted the very thing you've poured your heart and soul into for a long time? Joeteller apparently takes it for granted that Dan bends over backwards to make changes and fix bugs, at *customer* request. Such that when Dan isn't willing to make a small change, he's suddenly seen as a heartless cur with no sense of customer obligation.

Bah. I am firmly behind dan on this matter.

[JmOz]

Originally posted by Chaosliege
Ok. I do. Dan has been very helpful to any one who treats him with respect. Some people seem to be of the opinion that because they are a customer, they can treat people however they want with no reporcusions(sp). Dan isn't just an "employee", he's a person. He started this with the simple comment that the feature this guy wants is available through a template edit. He told where the directions for editing templates are. Then this guy goes on a tirade because he's not a programmer. RESPECT people, or expect none in return.

I will agree with this assesment for the most part to save time and get to the point: You are in essence saying that because Dan got treated badly (and by the 5th post I will agree with that) he has the right to treat the other guy badly in turn, further more he has the right to Up the antee by refering to him as a fool (turning it from a customer argument, that of the program will not sell as well, to a personal argument, insulting the person). This is why I make it a point to not insult Dan as a person when ever I do these rants, I don't know him.

See I have a serious issue with the concept of it is alright to treat people badly because you have been treated badly first. That is why I try to keep my rants on one specific area at a time, and make it a point not to call names, or get personal.

[MisterVimes]

Originally posted by joeteller
You may know programming, but you don't seem to know basic business concepts of customer support from what I've seen.

WHOA! Uncalled for... 15 yard penalty for delay of game.
Dan is an contractor working for HERO. He built a product to the specification of the Employer. You bought the product with a basic understanding of how the game works. It is hardly plausible to expect the Program to be modified to suit the needs of House Rules for every Game. The Software is written to conform to the rules of the game as written... I think that is a VERY reasonable expectation.

As far as Customer Support goes, this product has seen more support out of a solo programmer than I have seen in teams of HUNDREDS of programmers *cough*microsoft*cough*.

I have NEVER had such a direct line to the developers before, nor such speedy responses, patches and fixes.

[JmOz]

Originally posted by EternityShard
He's been called a fool (or similar) a number of times on the public boards. I've seen it. Dan didn't get upset until he was insulted.

How hurt and upset would you be if someone insulted the very thing you've poured your heart and soul into for a long time? Joeteller apparently takes it for granted that Dan bends over backwards to make changes and fix bugs, at *customer* request. Such that when Dan isn't willing to make a small change, he's suddenly seen as a heartless cur with no sense of customer obligation.

Bah. I am firmly behind dan on this matter.

Shows you what happens when I am waiting on my merchandice, I get into these things...ohh well

I would be ticked, if I had to (while at my store) I would ask my partner to take the register while I went in the back room and cooled off, or reign my emotions in until the troubled customer had left. AGAIN note, I think Dan has everyright to be mad, I just think he should not take it out on difficult customers.

I (as usual in these things) agree with Dan's dessision (not to make the program capable of doing the request), I DO NOT agree with the way he chose to express his desision when the customer became difficult.