Modern campaign power limits

[Herolover]

Not sure how to title this. Here is my question.

Dark Champions is supposed to also be the "Modern Book" for Hero. Well, I was wondering what kind of pwoer limits you have for different things. An Example is that in Fantasy Hero it is given that an average spell is 30-40 active points with powerful spells around 60 active points plus.

What about the Modern campaign with some powers? Such as a Modern fantasy campaign? Would you keep the same kind of power levels or would you up the power levels.

[Captain Obvious]

Someone on the d20 boards pointed out how a d20 Modern character with the right feats could destroy an M1 Abrams with their bare hands.

I would say most Dark Champions power levels should be significantly lower.

[Eosin]

Power levels really reflect what the GM thinks of the real world...Some of the big nasty automatic shotguns can rack up the active point. If you want a vulcan cannon or a m-60 "big pig" then expect to see some weapons exceeding 120 active points.

Some diseases and poisions are likewise very, very pricey.

[proditor]

Someone on the d20 boards pointed out how a d20 Modern character with the right feats could destroy an M1 Abrams with their bare hands.

I would say most Dark Champions power levels should be significantly lower.

Really? Man, I have to go look that up. I need a good laugh.

[Herolover]

Modern D20....ugh. I normally do not mind D20 games, but man...Modern D20 gives D20 a bad name and the fact that a a character could destroy a tank with his bare hands does not surprise me at all.

PS I loved the move Bubba Ho-Tep

[RDU Neil]

Not sure how to title this. Here is my question.

Dark Champions is supposed to also be the "Modern Book" for Hero. Well, I was wondering what kind of pwoer limits you have for different things. An Example is that in Fantasy Hero it is given that an average spell is 30-40 active points with powerful spells around 60 active points plus.

What about the Modern campaign with some powers? Such as a Modern fantasy campaign? Would you keep the same kind of power levels or would you up the power levels.

I personally think this is too complex a question to answer with simple limits on active points or whatever. There is too much variation in what a "modern campaign" is.

If, as is often the case, it is "closer to real" than most fantasy or supers games, I would make at least a couple of suggestions.

Limit martial arts. I love the Hero System's take on martial arts, but they are "supers" based, and unmodified can make "normal" characters way more powerful than is remotely realistic.

Decrease the Damage Classes of maneuvers by 1... and disallow Damage Classes to be purchases. This means a punch adds 1 DC at most... an offensive adds 3 DC at most.

Use STR mins with hand weapons to keep the dice added by weapons in check... and consider that almost any weapon (baseball bat or iron pipe or police baton) are more likely Killing Attacks than normal. Anything "harder" than human flesh is probably better represented as a KA than a normal attack in a "realistic" modern game.

If you use the hit location chart (and I'd suggest it for "realistic" games) consider the following. Take the Stun Multiple for a hit location (say x5 for a KA to the head) and roll a d6. 1-2, subtract 1 from the multiple... 3-4, multiple as normal... 5-6 add 1 to the multiple. This range offers some cool effects when hitting with bullets.

Knife work can use some mods... -1 Stun multiple to slashing attacks... -2 to hit for stabbing attacks but full stun multiple (player just describes/chooses to say the character is slashing or stabbing).

Keep stats below the threshold set by "NCM" for more realism... but encourage Stun higher than 30.

All of these things together can make a character feel more "real" in that damage gets through, but there has to be a number of punches/hits/stabs before they are down for the count. One punch/one hit knock outs should be rare in a more "realistic" style combat campaign. Even someone with a mortal wound could likelybe conscious while they bleed out unless the impact was in the head or their was an explosive concussion of some kind.

Unlike the way the rules allow, you simply can't "knock someone out" by hitting them in the stomach a lot. They may be on the ground mewling and gagging, but they'll still be conscious.

[PoorWandering 1]

Unlike the way the rules allow, you simply can't "knock someone out" by hitting them in the stomach a lot. They may be on the ground mewling and gagging, but they'll still be conscious.

I must respectfully disagree from unpleasent personal experience. Shock and pain can do wonders as far as unplanned napping is concerned.

'Cept for that bit i second the post. I would like to add that point levels can be more easily ignored in modern games than in other time periods.

$.02 anyway

[Storn]

I guess to me that the difference between being K.O.'d and gagging and puking on the ground is pretty small to the situation... they are out of the combat. Hero models nicely someone puking and gagging OR is K.O.'d but can who can recover and come back to the combat (between 0 and -10 stun) or the completely looped! (after -20 stun). Recovery then takes a long while. Especially in Hero combat time terms.

Since the effect is the same... target is no longer a threat, at least temporarily... I don't think it matters that much.

Now, Punching a boxer in the stomach over and over is not going to knock him out... but body blows have been part of boxing strategy for a century... eventually the target will collapse. When the guy can no longer stand... he can no longer stand. No longer fight. In mechanics, it doesn't matter. And I owuld hazard that boxers have really freakin' high PDs compared to the rest of us slobs.

{Realistically, I always thought that one's Recovery should go down as one got hurt more and more... and this would more accurately reflect what a boxer goes through. Fatigue and bruising is going to slow him up, allowing for a punch that early in the fight was easily absorbed... note absorbed, not blocked, not make miss...can now be the coup de grace. Less END/STUN Recovery ability as blows land could reflect this model}

[Toadmaster]

I guess to me that the difference between being K.O.'d and gagging and puking on the ground is pretty small to the situation... they are out of the combat. Hero models nicely someone puking and gagging OR is K.O.'d but can who can recover and come back to the combat (between 0 and -10 stun) or the completely looped! (after -20 stun). Recovery then takes a long while. Especially in Hero combat time terms.

{Realistically, I always thought that one's Recovery should go down as one got hurt more and more... and this would more accurately reflect what a boxer goes through. Fatigue and bruising is going to slow him up, allowing for a punch that early in the fight was easily absorbed... note absorbed, not blocked, not make miss...can now be the coup de grace. Less END/STUN Recovery ability as blows land could reflect this model}

I agree with this, its one of the things I really think HERO got right, breaking up Stun and Body, who cares if the target is on the ground moaning, seeing stars or is dead, the main point is they are not continuing the fight the rest is description.

For the second that seems easy enough, pick some break points say 1/2 and 1/4 stun / end, then knock off a point of REC, so lets give a REC of 6, after fighting awhile the Characters END drops to 1/2 so REC drops to 5, then his Stun gets down to 1/2 so REC drops to 4 etc, by the time END and STUN are at 1/4 the characters REC would be 2. Might be worth trying out sometime but it would have a big impact on combat.