What's wrong with Palladium?

[Spence]

Other problems with their products comes from the anytiquated, even amateurish layout, editing, and proofing. I've seen home-printed game modules with higher production values than Palldium product.

Apparently up until the "Crisis of Treachery" Kevin did cut and past layout by hand. He didn't use the computer. Even 3 or 4 years ago. From what I have heard, a computer is used now though.

Well computers don't mean much.

Take WotC and D&D 4th. Forget spelling and layout errors, try 22 pages of errors in just the core books. They type of errors that involve a few words replaced by paragraphs or entire columns or text replaced.

Say, you don't think WotC hired KS to proof D&D 4th do you?

[bubba smith]

i owned as copy of HU
i could never figure out if martial arts heroes were SPECIAL training or PHYSICAL training
i linked ninjas and superspies better for that reason

[Lord Liaden]

I've enjoyed several RIFTS books, especially the earlier ones, for their interesting ideas. Yes, the system is clunky, the presentation is confused, and the character classes are munchkinny and unbalanced. But once you accept all that and just go with it, the setting can be a lot of fun.

I'm especially fond of the Pantheons of the Multiverse sourcebook for its updated take on mythic gods. For some reason I get a particular kick out of Hermes' handheld rail gun, "the Herminator."

I've seen a lot of fan conversion of RIFTS to HERO, and IMO it's a good fit to the setting system-wise. RIFTS is one of the ultimate cross-genre game settings, and nobody does cross-genre better than HERO.

[Sketchpad]

Apparently up until the "Crisis of Treachery" Kevin did cut and past layout by hand. He didn't use the computer. Even 3 or 4 years ago. From what I have heard, a computer is used now though.

Using a computer = good. Using Word or Publisher for layout = bad. They need a designer to work on their books and make them look decent. Plus they need someone to organize info better.

[Spence]

Using a computer = good. Using Word or Publisher for layout = bad. They need a designer to work on their books and make them look decent. Plus they need someone to organize info better.

Ah....but then someone would have to admit the need......which would also in some people's minds be the same as admitting fault.

Can't have that now

[Admiral C]

Mystic China is a different book. There's also Rifts Japan and Rifts China... actually, I think there are two Rifts China books.

It was Rifts China I was thinking of. I got it confused with Mystic China. I remember my FLGS owner came back from GAMA with a autographed one by Kevin Siembedia and how it was a big deal because KS had eschewed GAMA for a number of years and this was that was the first year he had gone back. He offered it to me first but I passed on it.

[FenrisUlf]

This is also a superhero game where being a guy with military training and a gun pretty much assures you of being vastly more competent than any other sort of character, such as aliens, mutants, etc. You'll notice, of course, how well that corresponds to the superhero comics, where guys like Thor, Superman and the Fantastic Four are worthless and the Punisher is the toughest person out there.

Well, if we're talking about an issue by Garth Ennis, it's not that far wrong.

[mirage]

Well computers don't mean much.

Take WotC and D&D 4th. Forget spelling and layout errors, try 22 pages of errors in just the core books. They type of errors that involve a few words replaced by paragraphs or entire columns or text replaced.

Say, you don't think WotC hired KS to proof D&D 4th do you?

Computers mean a lot.

They decrease the time it takes for you to get the errors to the printer.

[Killer Shrike]

Palladium et al...great concepts, horrible execution. Or as we used to say in the Marines...Good Initiative, Poor Judgement.


Still, I had lots of fun playing RIFTS and After The Bomb and Soldiers and Superspies.

On the other hand, the group I was playing those games with never took Palladium seriously; we basically all competed to see who could make the most broken character and engage in the most absurd actions. Part of the fun was just being ridiculous and metagaming the busted system to the max. Success or failure was measured in the screams of outrage and bursts of uncontrollable laughter. The games were surreal, to say the least. Cheesy is also a good word for it.

[ercarlson1974]

My Palladium days are thankfully behind me. I liked the Rifts concept at first, but the setting quickly got so broken that it lost its appeal. Paging through some of the supplements showed me that you had to build a horribly munchkiny character to have even a chance of survival. Maximum MDC, the only way to go! I fiddled around with Robotech for a while, but it quickly lost its appeal too. Heroes Unlimited was my most-played game, mainly because it played right into the hands of power gamers like I was at the time.

On the skills front, negative modifiers piled up so fast that even basic tasks became insurmountable obstacles. As one example, the Hardware: Weapons character's weapon modification skill suffered an automatic -15% penalty just for modifying a revolver (adding a barrel, changing the cylinder, whatever). At least Hero allows you to build penalty skill levels to overcome negative mods.

The basic concepts behind the powers were all right in my mind. Translating them to game play was humorous at best, horribly broken at worst. Fortunately, back then I cared little for consistency in storytelling; I wanted to be the biggest, baddest brick on the block, and Palladium scratched that itch well.

Kevin S was in severe need of an editor and a designer to build a proper layout in his books. He had a particular zeal for overuse of commas. My struggles with translating his "writing" became one more reason I drifted away from the system. I did give Heroes Unlimited 2nd edition a chance when it came out. It was a marginal improvement, but that's all I can say in its defense.

I can sum all this up in three words: Long Live Hero!!

[bubba smith]

Palladium et al...great concepts, horrible execution. Or as we used to say in the Marines...Good Initiative, Poor Judgement.


Still, I had lots of fun playing RIFTS and After The Bomb and Soldiers and Superspies.

On the other hand, the group I was playing those games with never took Palladium seriously; we basically all competed to see who could make the most broken character and engage in the most absurd actions. Part of the fun was just being ridiculous and metagaming the busted system to the max. Success or failure was measured in the screams of outrage and bursts of uncontrollable laughter. The games were surreal, to say the least. Cheesy is also a good word for it.

actually thats ninjas and superspies

[SCUBA Hero]

Kevin S was in severe need of an editor and a designer to build a proper layout in his books. He had a particular zeal for overuse of commas.

Yah. And exclamation points...

[FenrisUlf]

Yah. And exclamation points...

He certainly did overuse them!!!!!!!!!!!!! :P

[Tech]

I still play Robotech -palladium system- as does our group, and we like it.

[Spence]

I still play Robotech -palladium system- as does our group, and we like it.

I have a friend that still plays the Robotech game. But he can't stand the other P games.