The Wheel of Time

[NuSoardGraphite]

With the new book out, and Hero 5th out, and all the new (and old skool) Hero converts lurking around these days, I figure its time to resurrect this old topic...

Too bad we don't have access to the old message board. There was a TON of great stuff in there for WoT based games. I still have to finish the Blademaster Arts! (I was about 3/4 done with it) and now its lost....ALL LOST!

[Nolgroth]

I didn't save the discussion as late as your Blademaster stuff, but I do have the HTML file of most of the discussion prior to that. E-mail me an address I can send it to, if you should want it.

[Edit] Oops, didn't add an e-mail for you to send to. nolgroth@netscape.net

[NuSoardGraphite]

Ooh, Ooh!

You saved some?

My Hero!

I'll be e-mailing you about it this weekend.

I'm not really worried about the Blademaster stuff. I can always do that again (I really should put it into my own computer) and I want to adjust it to the 5th edition anyway, so starting from scratch is okay.

[ShadowRaptor]

Wheel of Time is cool. I have the d20 book for it but I think it would be sweeter to play it using HERO than d20. If any of you remember, what kinds of things did you come up with for WoT?

[NuSoardGraphite]

Oh man. We had a sweet thread going!

We had rules for The One Power, Ogier, Angreal, Ter'angreal and Sa'angreal, Channelling and Burnout, cutting one off from the Source, Linking and Circles, the Blademaster Arts...basically The Whole Enchilada.

Practically the only thing we lacked were stats for specific characters and creatures.

Man, that was one kick ass thread. And now its GONE.



Thats why I'm starting this thread here. I'm hoping the people who contributed to the thread on the last board will help in upgrading to the 5th edition...

[Nolgroth]

Originally posted to the Cybergames Wheel of Time discussion thread by Ghostnight. Please note that Ghostnight quoted Corvus to start the thread.

I think the "rolling end" thing works fairly well. It was the best way we could think of to simulate the weaves without things getting weird, while still trying to maintain balance.

For the wolf dream thing, my roommate and I came up with an Area of Effect mind link with wolves, which had the red. by range lim. To simulate an ability to contact any wolf(who was willing) in a specific area(the AA was to offset the "must have LoS" rule for Mindlink. The red. by range was added to simulate a distance related "signal degradation" which we sorta saw in the books.

We did Aiel with Martial arts. Warders had a small amount of regen. and a mindlink with their AesSedie. They also got a cloak with images 1 hex to simulate the color shifting cloak.(grants bonuses to stealth and concealment) Warders could buy combat levels or martial arts which ever they wanted. Exa. being a heron mark swordmaster was martial arts, being an archer or axe-weilder would be done with C. Levels.

Out of curiousity how do you do Ogier's singing abilities? We've set them up as powers you can buy (as per normal Fantasy Hero spells). We use extra time and incantations but not RSR. Seems to work well and gamewise the two "magic systems" are different enough to be distinct.

My roommates campaign is set just before the most recent book, so the one power is...(if you read the book you know, if you havent i dont want to spoil it).

Noone in the campaign is Aiel or a Warder. We've got 3 Aes'Sedia(sp?)(Green and Blue from the tower in exhile and Yellow from the Tower not in exhile), an Ogier and an Ashaman(me, and boy have I had fun going insane so far, none of the characters trusts my grasp on the world! But they need me for my traveling abilities, it's great!)

GN

And the original Corvus quote....

well... what we did was to have the Power using types buy each individual thread, for an increasing cost. We tend to seperate the magic using types from others by having them spend points on magesight, or somesuch. So, staying with that premise, we decided to charge it rather like perks: 2 pts for Spirit, then 3pts for the next, and on up until they spent 6 pts for the fourth. It got spendy, but we thought it did show how hard it was to have real ability in all for threads, as we thought the book was showing. Later books kind of blew that out, 'cause it seems everyone can toss off weaves like going to the bathroom, but we were playing early in the series. We also decided that the Perrin type guys, who were going into the Wolf Dream had to spend the 2 pts on Spirit, to denote that ability...

Now, I think your way might be better, having weaves that cost multiples of END if the caster had little ability in the element in question...

I'll try to post a message or two a day from the old thread so you can see what we did with the whole discussion.

[Nolgroth]

Originally posted by Corvus in the Cybergames Wheel of Time thread.

The game hasn't survived to this point. We didn't even have to worry about Ogier abilities. Maybe we'll go back when Jordan finishes the series...
Just before or just after the most recent? The change in environment is pretty dramatic, there. Hey, how did your guy get away from the Black Tower in the first place?

[Nolgroth]

Originally posted by Nu Soard Graphite in the Cybergames Wheel of Time thread.

've considered running a fantasy game based on WoT series. In any case, I'll probably use the magic system from WoT in any Fantasy Hero game I run (VPP with various skills based on the "weaves")
I was thinking that the amount of one power a person can draw in is the same no matter what (Nynaeve, being considered one of the most powerful Aes Sedai in history, might have a VPP of 90 points!) but it is their SKILL with a particular type of weave that determines what they can do with the power. This method takes a LOT of GM interpretation. The base skill roll should be figured up as follows. Strong skill ([Int/5]+11) Weak skill ([Int/5]+6) Spirit ([Int/5]+9) Thus, an average Int Male would have Earth(13-) Fire(13-) Water(8-) Wind(8-) Spirit(11-) and a female would have Earth(8-) Fire(8-) Water(13-) Wind(13-) and Spirit(11-). Each skill would cost 2pts per +1 to the roll and 5pts skill levels to "Power Weaves" must be distributed among the various skills as needed during a phase.
The actual weaves require skill rolls as outlined in the HSR/BBB under Variable Power Pools. The fact that the skill for the power pool is split between 5 different skills is a (-1) limitation. This counters the +1 advantage of 0phase activation. (it doesn't usualy seem to take much time for most weaves in WoT...although extra time can be taken for a bonus)

When one is weaving the OnePower (making a skill roll) the GM determines which skill is the base skill needed. Example: Rand is faced with two Trollocks and a Fade! He lost his sword some time back, so he decides to form a blade of pure flame, using the One Power. The GM determines that the base skill is Fire with Air being the secondary skill.
Secondary skills are rolled, complimentary to the Base skill. Use whatever method you have developed for dealing with Complimentary skills, however, for play balance reasons, I suggest you use the following method: Successful Complimentary skill gives +1 to base skill roll. Critical Success on Complimentary roll gives +2 to base skill roll. (critical success is rolling half or less of what you needed to succeed). A failure gives a -1 to base skill roll and a critical failure gives -2 to base skill roll. With this method, it allows someone with a high secondary skill to give them a better chance with a poor base skill, but not give them TOO much of a bonus.
Continue example: Rand has a Power Pool of 90 points. He wants to configure 60points of it into a 2D6HKA Ap/+1stunx (60act). His skill with Fire is 18- his skill with air is 14-. He makes his air roll (14 minus 6 is 8 or less) and rolls a 7, succeeding, giving him a +1 to his skill with Fire (19-) He makes his second roll with fire (19 minus 6 for 13-) and gets a 10. He succeeds in creating the fireblade and proceeds to chop his opponents to cinders!
Concievably, one could have multiple secondary skills to 1 base skill. (Healing a disease may require Base:water with secondary Air and Secondary: Fire (to control the fever). This is completely up to the GM, which can give the GM a headache, if his characters learn to rely on the One Power (a dangerous propisition for an Ashaman) but an imaginative and fast-thinking Gm should have no problem with this particular system.

[Nolgroth]

Please note that I'm only going to post the original messages as they relate to using the Hero system. The incidental messages I'll leave out.

Originally posted by Nu Soard Graphite in the Cybergames Wheel of Time thread.

Angreal, Ter'angreal and Sa'angreal.

Ter'angreal are just various magic weapons and items in the campaign. Some require the One Power to activate, some don't. depends on the items purpose (ancient weapons that use the One Power don't normaly require the One Power to use, though some really ancient weapons may have been built for use by the Gifted example: Callandor)

Angreal add points to the users VPP. Not as an Aid...just give the Angreal a point rating and this adds directly to the VPP of of the mage using it. Example, Rands "Little Fat Man" Angreal has a rating of 20pts and thus adds 20pts to Rands already impressive 90pt VPP, thus giving rand access to a power pool of 110 pts! The Angreal do not, however, give the user additional skill with the Power. Better have some skill levels! (Rand had this problem with Callandor..a VERY powerful Sa'angreal. He did not have the skill to use the amount of power that Callandor gave him and he was almost consumed by it) In general, Angreal should be limited to 10-30pts.

Sa'angreal: These are very powerful Angreal. They can significantly increase the level of power that a mage can wield and can often allow a single user of the Power to overcome even a circle of 6 or more. Sa'angreal should give bonuses to VPP of greater than 30pts. (a very powerful Sa'angreal like Callandor would give a bonus of 50-60pts to their VPP!)

does anyone know if Angreal and Sa'angreal can stack bonuses. I don't remember if that has ever been done, but I know that one can use an Angreal and then join into a circle. Thats some serious Power being thrown around!

Also, how would you guys simulate a "Circle"? I have a method worked out, but I'm curious to see what you guys come up with.

[Nolgroth]

Originally posted by Nolgroth in the Cybergames Wheel of Time thread

NSG,

You have some pretty interesting ideas for WoT-style magic. I myself made up a mechanic where each of the five elements had a rating from 1 to 10. Each point of rating would limit you to 10 AP of power in an effect. I also pre-defined what kind of powers fell under which element.

I ran the Power Pool as a combination Multipower/Variable Pool. With powers that you paid the slot for, the Skill Roll was made with no penalty. For instances where a person experimented with the Power, a Skill Roll was made with the normal penalty for the number of active points used.

For Circles, each person had to take an Aid to Channeling pool. With the proper power modifiers, the person in charge of the Circle received an aid from each member of the Circle to the Pool slot. For actual powers within the Aided Pool, I was somewhat lenient. If somebody had a slot for Fireball (for instance), I allowed them to increase the power of the slot by the same ratio that the pool increased. The AID became a Continuous Power. Essentially the initial Aid roll was maintained by the members of the
Circle by paying END each Turn. I also had the END cost of the powers used split among the Circle members.

I also allowed the artificial ratings for the five elements to be raised by two for the first additional member of the Circle and one for every member after that.

Keep in mind that I am very lenient with points if the effect is gained. I also tend to flex the rules a little. The system I used worked out really well at simulating the WoT channeling system. Let me know what you think.

[Nolgroth]

Originally posted by Nu Soard Graphite in the Cybergames Wheel of Time thread.

Not bad at all, Nogroth. It does simulate the way Jordan seems to have lain out his structure of Magic in the WoT. With women being weak in Earth and Fire, are limited to low points (rating 1-3) in those but unlimited in the others. Vice, versa with Males. Good system!

The way I was planning on dealing with a circle, is the most powerful is usualy chosen as leader of the circle (i.e. the other members of the circle, feed her their portion of the One Power) or the one with the most Skill with the necesary weaves. The Leader uses her full VPP. The other members of a circle must roll their skill with spirit (with a penalty based on how much of the One Power they intend to lend to the circle) to join the circle. The others in the circle add the amount of their VPP they wish to add to the circle together then divide by 5. Thus, a circle of 13 average full Aes Sedai (average VPP of 30pts) can combine to a total VPP of 102pts! ([12x30]/5+30) which means a circle of 13 average Aes Sedai barely exceeds Rands level of power by himself (VPP:90) which goes in line with about the power level represented in the books. (a circle of 11 exactly matches Rands VPP of 90)
The End is shared between all members of the circle evenly. Thus, because the End is so inexpensive, the increased End limitation is often applied to weaves created in a circle to use less of the One Power so that some Power is left in case the circle needs emergency defenses or counter magick. Example: a circle of 11 Aes Sedai (total VPP:90) are attempting to fight Lanfear (VPP:75) and have decided to erase her from reality and create Balefire. They configure their VPP to 1D6RKA(15) AVLD/body(+2.5) Autofire-5(+1/2) Transdimensional(+1/2) AE-1hex(+1/2) Continuous(+1) For a total of 90 active points: [note: the transdimensional is through time. The AVLD is vs Force Field]
Limitations they put on the Balefire blast is X2end(-1/2) no kb(-1/4) for a real cost of 51pts. Which leaves the circle with 39 points to configure into a defense if necesary. Lanfear dodges the initial blast of Balefire and recognizing it for what it is, decides enough is enough and uses all of her ability with the one power to psychicaly assualt the leader of the circle (70active points of Ego Blast!) One of the circle recognizes the weaves that Lanfear is creating and lets their leader know she is preparing a mind assualt using spirit. The leader decides to configure the 39 points of VPP left into 40pts of Mental Defens, AE-Radius Selective (to cover all the circle) which is 90 active, but with the limitations of Cost End(-1/2) and X4End(-1.5) for 30 real points (which leaves 9 pts of the pool free). Lanfear attacks with her 7D6 Ego blast, causing 28 pts of stun damage, but the Spirit shield weaved by the circle deflects it easily. The circle has spent 90 end on the Balefire and 36 end for the Mental Defense for a total of 126 end divided by 11 equals 11.4 end each (round down to 11, what the hell). The leader takes any fractions so she takes 15 end. Lanfear decides it not worth the trouble its going to take to fight a circle that large, so she travells 25km to the north and escapes.

The leader may pass control of a circle to someone else. She must make a Spirit skill roll in order to do so (-1/10pts in the pool) but may take extra time to do so, in order to gain a bonus. The person recieving the pool must also make a Spirit skill roll to gain control of the pool, but at a +1 bonus provided the previous leader succeeds in her Spirit skill roll (or +2 if her roll was a critical success) if either fail their skill roll, control fails to shift. If either criticaly fails their skill roll, bad, bad things happen (the circle crumbles, and must once again be established, and each memeber of the circle takes a 1D6 End drain per 10pts in the VPP!)
After a circle ends, each member of the circle must make an Ego check with a penalty equal to how much of the power they put into the circle (-1/10 as usual) if they fail this, they take a 1D6 end drain per 10pts of their pool that they put into the circle. Entering a circle can be tiring, but is necesary sometimes!

Remember, members of the same sex cannot make a circle that exceeds 13 members. in order to have more than 13 members, there must be at least one person of the opposite sex present to stand in as a link to the other half of the Source. This goes for every multiple of 13 achieved. With mixed, male/female circles, some truely impressive feats of the One Power can be achieved...though because of the animosity between Ashaman and Aes Sedai, this will almost never happen (however, the Forsaken, Black Ajah and Dark Friends don't have this predjudice!).

Just to scare the Bejeezus outta you, a mixed circle of 39 average users of the One Power can generate a VPP of 258 pts!!! ([30X38]/5+30).

Hmm...thats a bit much...do you think its too high?

Lets try this: First 13 is ([VppX12]/5+VPP)
The Second 13 are ([VppX13]/10)
The Third 13 are ([VppX13]/20)
and so on.
using that method, the aforementioned circle of 39 average users of the Power would achieve a VPP of 160.5pts. Thats a bit better.

Which method do you think is more representative of the Power increase of a Circle?

[Nolgroth]

Originally posted by Nu Soard Graphite in the Cybergames Wheel of Time thread.

Stilling:

Stilling would be a Transform (Major) that strips one of their ability to use the one power (I.e. Removes the Variable Power Pool!)

Reversing Stilling: This would also be a transform. However, at current, any Female trying to reverse the stilling of another Female can only return Half the Power pool. (note someone with a VPP of 30 before, will only have a VPP of 15 after being HEALED by a female) and the same is true for a Male attempting to reverse a Male that has been stilled. When one of the opposite Sex reverses the stilling, the VPP returns at full strength.

[Nolgroth]

Originally posted by Nu Soard Graphite in the Cybergames Wheel of Time thread.

The Lure of the One Power:

The One Power, like the Darkside of the Force, can be seductive, luring you to take in more and more of the Power...more Power than you can safely handle. If a person absorbs more of the One Power than they can handle, they can Still themsevles, harm themselves or even kill themselves! It can be handled in several ways.

When one first opens themself to the One Power in a day, make an Ego roll. Remember, the more powerful the person is (the Higher the Power Pool) the more powerful is the Lure of the One Power. No matter how much of their Power Pool they are attempting to use, the penalty to the Ego is based on their full Pool. The Penalty is -1/20 Act points in the pool. The Talent, Resistance gives a bonus to Ego rolls for this.
If the character fails their Ego roll, they pull in more of the power than they can handle and hurt themselves. They take a 1D6 stun drain for every 10pts in their pool PLUS 1D6 for every point they fail the roll by. On a critical failure(17) that translates to physical Damage (roll as Normal damage, but NND) On a critical failure(18) that translates to Dice of Transform in an effort to still the character!!! in anycase, on a roll of 18, the character is instantly knocked out, and will not be able to Channel for 3D6 days.

If this seems harsh to you, remember that Novices are not allowed to Channel for the first Year or so of their training without a teacher present. This is so that the teacher can be handy to cut the Novice off from the One Power if she pulls in too much and cannot stop herself. It has been mentioned that many Novices train themselves in secret, but just about as many end up stilling themselves or causing some form of permanent damage. Thus, Novices are not allowed to Channel on their own until such a time as they have learned proper control under the guidance of a full Aes Sedai (i.e. have gained a few levels of Resistance to aid in their struggle with the One Power) It is to be assumed that one must have a minimum of 5 levels of resistance before one can be raised to the level of Accepted, and be allowed to channel/train on ones own. This struggle also applies when attempting to take control of a Circle, thus only the most skilled, Strongwilled of Aes Sedai are allowed to lead a circle.

A Channeler can attempt to pull in more of the One Power than they can normaly handle (i.e. "Push" their Power Pool) but this is a risky proposition at best. After opening themselves up to the One Power, they must make an Ego roll, at the normal penalty. If they succeed, they gain +10 to the Pool +2pts per pt the Ego roll was made by. If they fail, treat as if they rolled a 17 (dice in physical Damage, no defense) if a 17 or 18 is rolled, they are automaticaly stilled. No passing GO, no collecting $200. (and up to the GM, Knocked into a Coma as well)

If you want to use more of the One Power, get an Angreal!!!

oh, and for Gm's that want to keep players on their toes. Make them roll for the Control during times of stress...the middle of a battle and they see a comrade hurt or killed. During a particularly disturbing revelation. If they are sick and attempting to Channel. If they are attempting to Channel for no good reason. This can be used as a GM control collar for those who find the proposition of giving PC's a VPP daunting.

[Nolgroth]

Originally posted by Nolgroth in the Cybergames Wheel of Time thread.

he Lure of the One Power:

I have to agree with you again on most points. I might not do an automatic Stilling when drawing in too much of the power, but I would at least treat it as a double strength transform.

[Nolgroth]

Originally posted by Ghostnight in the Cybergames Wheel of Time thread.

Sorry for the delay in posting...

In my roommates campaign(which takes place before the last book), Rand had made an arrangement with some of the borderlands forts to provide assistance in "holding back the blight". As a result Taim has sent my character to Fal Dara. The campaign just started but there was a recent shadowspawn attack where an ancient mirror was stolen. The mirror turned out to be an Angreal which the castle's lord hadnt known about, now the group is running through the Ways(trying to avoind the blackwind) following the mydryall(sp?) who stole the mirror.

Nu Soard, we simulated angreal, sa'angreal, and circle as aids to all powers in the power pool. With angreal and sa'angreal we used 0end, cont. and a focus (if i remeber right, I'm at work right now) and for circles everyone in the circle places a similar aid in their pool and aids the leader of the circle. The aid has limitations like only X number of men vs women, must be in circle, etc...

I dont remember how stilling was down, but the transform seems right... For shielding we opted to break the rules a little and made a drain vs the control cost of the power pool. Not exactly kosher by the rules but it works quite well without making it too easy or too hard.

We had thought about using different skill rolls for each weave but since most of our players are new to the Hero system we opted for just a "rolling end" type of setup. This way we can generate a base weave, and then the players can scale it to the power level they want. Exa. a Fireball weave would be written up 1d6exp. is 8act pts/3 real pts and 1 end male, 2 end female. If you had a 30pt pool(average for the camp.) you could do upto 4d6exp. for approx 30act pts, and 15 real with it costing 3 end male/6 female.

But i'll tell you Balefire was a tough one without having todo a huge amount of killing damage. We did X-D Move UvO, AA line, Trans Dim.(to kill them in the past). Where did we send them? Out of the pattern! My roommate, who is new to the system looked at me REALLY funny when I suggested this...

GN