Ye Ole Wheel of Time MAGIC SYSTEM

[Eosin]

I was thinking about the Wheel of Time magic system the other day and the various methods of simulating it in Hero, none of which really satisfy me. Breaking out my trusty WOT d20, copious notes from my old website, and Fantasy Hero – I came up with the following.

The One Power
The One Power is a natural resource. The extent of control over it depends on the user’s skill and innate magical strength. [HERO Terms: Channelers are required to purchase Endurance Reserves and all weaves must cost END]. Any character with a One Power END battery gains One Power Awareness (Exactly like Mental Awareness).

DF: Channeler
It is not available to just anyone. There are two types of channelers – those who can be taught and those who will channel naturally. This has little impact on magical power in the long run. Since impact is minimal, this is best handled as a DF that indicates a born channeler or one who can be taught. Taking the DF is required at character creation and serves to limit who can and who cannot channel.

Skill Roll
Both inborn talent and learned skill aid the channeler in weaving the One Power. All spells are required to take the RSR: One Power with the limitation -1 per 10 Active Points. Each spell will also list a difficulty factor based on the number of threads (-1 per thread beyond the first).

Talents
One Power Strength – As the ability to channel is a gift some are born with while and others are not, so to is an individuals peak power a quirk of birth. Men and Women gain power differently, but neither can strain beyond the gifts they were born with, much like an some people will never run a 5 minute mile no matter how hard they train. The One Power Strength Talent must be purchased at character creation.

0 point – Feeble Channeler – This person will never become an Accepted.
1 point – Weak Channeler – This person will never become an Aes Sedai
3 points – Marginal Channeler – This person barely qualifies for the title Aes Sedai
5 points – Average Channeler – The average Aes Sedai during the book time frame.
10 points – Gifted Channeler – A powerful and respected Aes Sedai
15 points – Strong Channeler – An Aes Sedai renown for her strength (Suiane or Moiraine).
20 points – Elite Channeler – Stronger than the Aes Sedai believe possible (Wonder Girls)
25 points – Legendary Channeler – As Strong as the most powerful Forsaken

Weaves are given a range of power and access to the more powerful versions is determined by this talent.

Affinities - using the One Power has as much to do with a person’s particular talent as it does with study and skill. The One Power is formed from five different elements – spirit, earth, air, fire, and water, most channelers are only proficient with one or maybe two different elements. All Channelers select a base affinity and may purchase other affinities at character creation. The Affinities of Earth & Fire are typically regarded as male dominated while Air & Water are more common among females. Spirit is found equally in men and women. Same gender Affinities cost 4 points while cross-gender Affinities cost 8 points. Channelers suffer a -2 penalty to their One Power skill roll for each element required by a weave in which they have no affinity. Additionally, they suffer an additional -1 for cross gender affinities.

Players may take a disadvantage related to affinities called Weak Affinity: X. Weaves from that Affinity suffer a -5 to the One Power roll.

One Power Talents – certain uses of the One Power do not come easily to even the most powerful channeler while other may find that they have an aptitude for working these unusual types of weaves. Examples include Healing, Foretelling, and Earth Delving. The cost of these talents is listed in the descriptions below.

Weave Familiarities
There are two standard methods to learn new weaves – the first and hardest is study and experimentation. The standard rules for spell research apply (pg 88 5th ED) but the time and penalty for research is -1 per 5 active points rather than the standard -1 per 10 active points. Failing this roll can have disastrous consequences like stilling. If the Inventor roll is missed by more than 5 points the character suffers an END Battery drain equal to 1d6 per 10 AP of the Weave. If the character has no END remaining then they are effectively stilled.

The second and easier method is through observation of a weave being made. Channelers must make an Analyze: Weave roll, success indicates that they may try to attempt to recreate the effect. If the roll was made by more than 2 then it can be immediately attempted but if the roll was close then the character will need a day or two to review what they saw. In either case a standard Weave Research roll is needed but with no active point penalty, if successful they have mastered the weave.

Each weave is purchased as a 1 point Weave Familiarity, although some may be purchased as a group for 2 points.


Example Weaves – not really a good example but it will do.


10 Feeble Shielding: Entangle 0 1/2d6, 0 DEF (Stops A Given Sense Group - Magical Group), Takes No Damage From Attacks (+1/4), BOECV (Mental Defense applies; +1), Range Modifiers Apply (-1/4), Invisible to Sight Group, Hide effects of Power (+1) (45 Active Points); Set Effect – entangles the END Reserve (-1), Stops Working If Mentalist Is Stunned (-1/2), Requires An One Power Roll (-1/2), (One Power Strength Adds to EGO; -1/2), Cannot Form Barriers (-1/4), Concentration (1/2 DCV; -1/4), Costs END To Maintain (Half END Cost; -1/4), Subject To Range Modifier (-1/4) 4

13 Weak Shielding: Entangle 0 1/2d6, 1 DEF (Stops A Given Sense Group Mental Group), Takes No Damage From Attacks Limited Group (+1/4), BOECV (Mental Defense applies; +1), Range Modifiers Apply (-1/4), Invisible to Sight Group, Hide effects of Power (+1) (60 Active Points); Set Effect (One Power Only) (-1), Stops Working If Mentalist Is Stunned (-1/2), Requires An One Power Roll (-1/2), (One Power Strength Adds to EGO; -1/2), Cannot Form Barriers (-1/4), Concentration (1/2 DCV; -1/4), Costs END To Maintain (Half END Cost; -1/4), Subject To Range Modifier (-1/4) 6

17 Marginal Shielding: Entangle 1d6, 2 DEF (Stops A Given Sense Group Mental Group), Takes No Damage From Attacks Limited Group (+1/4), BOECV (Mental Defense applies; +1), Range Modifiers Apply (-1/4), Invisible to Sight Group, Hide effects of Power (+1) (75 Active Points); Set Effect (One Power Only) (-1), Stops Working If Mentalist Is Stunned (-1/2), Requires An One Power Roll (-1/2), (One Power Strength Adds to EGO; -1/2), Cannot Form Barriers (-1/4), Concentration (1/2 DCV; -1/4), Costs END To Maintain (Half END Cost; -1/4), Subject To Range Modifier (-1/4) 7

23 Shielding: Entangle 2d6, 3 DEF (Stops A Given Sense Group Mental Group), Takes No Damage From Attacks Limited Group (+1/4), BOECV (Mental Defense applies; +1), Range Modifiers Apply (-1/4), Invisible to Sight Group, Hide effects of Power (+1) (105 Active Points); Set Effect (One Power Only) (-1), Stops Working If Mentalist Is Stunned (-1/2), Requires An One Power Roll (-1/2), (One Power Strength Adds to EGO; -1/2), Cannot Form Barriers (-1/4), Concentration (1/2 DCV; -1/4), Costs END To Maintain (Half END Cost; -1/4), Subject To Range Modifier (-1/4) 10

27 Gifted Shielding: Entangle 3d6, 3 DEF (Stops A Given Sense Group Mental Group), Takes No Damage From Attacks Limited Group (+1/4), BOECV (Mental Defense applies; +1), Range Modifiers Apply (-1/4), Invisible to Sight Group, Hide effects of Power (+1) (120 Active Points); Set Effect (One Power Only) (-1), Stops Working If Mentalist Is Stunned (-1/2), Requires An One Power Roll (-1/2), (One Power Strength Adds to EGO; -1/2), Cannot Form Barriers (-1/4), Concentration (1/2 DCV; -1/4), Costs END To Maintain (Half END Cost; -1/4), Subject To Range Modifier (-1/4) 12

33 Elite Shielding: Entangle 3d6, 5 DEF (Stops A Given Sense Group Mental Group), Takes No Damage From Attacks Limited Group (+1/4), BOECV (Mental Defense applies; +1), Range Modifiers Apply (-1/4), Invisible to Sight Group, Hide effects of Power (+1) (150 Active Points); Set Effect (One Power Only) (-1), Stops Working If Mentalist Is Stunned (-1/2), Requires An One Power Roll (-1/2), (One Power Strength Adds to EGO; -1/2), Cannot Form Barriers (-1/4), Concentration (1/2 DCV; -1/4), Costs END To Maintain (Half END Cost; -1/4), Subject To Range Modifier (-1/4)


Obviously, I am not done yet - just getting the sketchy outline figured out.

[Outsider]

The One Power seems like it would work very well as a VPP limited to 'known' effects (as represented by weave familiarities) with the pool manipulation skill roll modified by affinity, talent, and perhaps a variable for the particular effect being created.

People born with more potential than others simply buy a bigger pool if they have the points available.

[Greg]

You mentioned some groups of weaves could be purchased at a cost of 2. Would the above be something like that? The one thing I always want to do that Hero seems to make a little difficult out of the box would be just having a Shield weave that the character could pump as much endurance into that they want. The official WoT MUD lets you do this though I've only talked to players and not played myself. The limitation then might be either the characters endurance reserve or some combination of their level of talent versus the spells active cost. Maybe max weave AP could be talent points*5. Also how would you simulate a casters leanings towards one element versus another? I'd love to see how this turns out since I would like to do something similar.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Not too Shabby Eosin, I'm eager to see what else you come up with...

[llewin]

*bump*

two reasons...

one...i'm a wot fanatic and developing a magic system for the one power is number one of my list of challenges for my newly aquired hero system books...

two... eosin is the man

What do you all think about showing one power affinities through a group of 5 skills not just one?

one skill for each affinity... earth,fire,water etc...
and if a weave uses more than one of them it has a 'primary' which you roll to succeed and any secondary affinities for the weave can be rolled by the player for a synergy bonus of maybe +1 or +2 to the roll?

[bluegodjanus]

And if a weave uses more than one of them it has a 'primary' which you roll to succeed and any secondary affinities for the weave can be rolled by the player for a synergy bonus of maybe +1 or +2 to the roll?

The secondary affinities would be complementary skills to the primary. I don't recall exactly how that works, and you have my book. I think it's in the skills chapter, though.

[Eosin]

The One Power seems like it would work very well as a VPP limited to 'known' effects (as represented by weave familiarities) with the pool manipulation skill roll modified by affinity, talent, and perhaps a variable for the particular effect being created.

People born with more potential than others simply buy a bigger pool if they have the points available.

This is a possibility - and definately a route I thought about taking. I curbed it for a variety of reasons a) The pool maximum should never change b) some of the effects in WOT will cost somewhere around 250 active points maybe higher so even someone like Verin will need a 150 point VPP and someone like the forsaken/Rand/ Wonder Girls will need a 300 point +++ pool c) I have a big of bigotry against VPP's - they tend to get abused even when accompanied with a "must learn spells" limitation.

That said - I spent a while looking a someway to bring in VPPs and they may show up in the final version of this.

[Eosin]

You mentioned some groups of weaves could be purchased at a cost of 2. Would the above be something like that? The one thing I always want to do that Hero seems to make a little difficult out of the box would be just having a Shield weave that the character could pump as much endurance into that they want. The official WoT MUD lets you do this though I've only talked to players and not played myself. The limitation then might be either the characters endurance reserve or some combination of their level of talent versus the spells active cost. Maybe max weave AP could be talent points*5. Also how would you simulate a casters leanings towards one element versus another? I'd love to see how this turns out since I would like to do something similar.

First Q -

This is a single weave called Shielding - but it is given at its various power levels so that the player who took "Average Aes Sedai ONE POWER STRENGTH" would know that he/she could use each of the versions below average. In otherwords, you may freely channel lower versions of the weave but are limited by your OP strength to kyour highest effect.

Second Q -
This is a mental entagle that only prevents accessing OP END - the character can still do anything else they like but cannot power their own weaves. They may attempt a breakout roll using their EGO + their OP Strength which means on average - you can shield someone near your own power but not hold them. They will bust right through it. What I didn't get to is the linking and other power bootsers that will actually make this weave effective.

[Eosin]

What do you all think about showing one power affinities through a group of 5 skills not just one?

one skill for each affinity... earth,fire,water etc...
and if a weave uses more than one of them it has a 'primary' which you roll to succeed and any secondary affinities for the weave can be rolled by the player for a synergy bonus of maybe +1 or +2 to the roll?

This was my original intent but for cost reasons I went with one Magic Roll and just assessed penalties based on the Affinity Talent.

If I was to do this - I would remove the Affinity Talent and each weave would have the limitation MULTIPLE RSR (-1/2) and in the description you would see something like this for a 70 active point weave using spirit and fire as the two primary threads.

Spirit RSR: -7
Earth RSR: Auto
Air RSR: Auto
Fire RSR: -7
Water RSR: Auto

While this is a MORE like the books - it can also get pretty complicated in game.

[Eosin]

PS - thanks Nusoard,

Most of my opinions are based on the works that you guys did earlier (for good or bad) A bunch of the write-ups from the old thread will just be ported right over here.

[Andrew Byers]

This is a possibility - and definately a route I thought about taking. I curbed it for a variety of reasons a) The pool maximum should never change b) some of the effects in WOT will cost somewhere around 250 active points maybe higher so even someone like Verin will need a 150 point VPP and someone like the forsaken/Rand/ Wonder Girls will need a 300 point +++ pool c) I have a big of bigotry against VPP's - they tend to get abused even when accompanied with a "must learn spells" limitation.

That said - I spent a while looking a someway to bring in VPPs and they may show up in the final version of this.

BTW, thanks for undertaking this effort, Eosin, I am a big fan of the WoT and think it would be a terrific fan conversion for the Hero System. (Not intended as a flame, but I was left somewhat unsatisfied by the WotC version for a number of reasons.)

One concern I have for channeling is that itwould likely be inordinately expensive for PCs if the various weaves aren't available in some kind of Power Framework. I think you're right about the huge size for a VPP that would be required for even moderately powerful channelers. How about a Multipower though? It would stiull have to have a big active point cost, but I think this could be brought down to a much more manageable siz by the various limitation that WoT channelers have. It would also reflevct the difficulty that channelers have with sustaining multiple weaves simultaneously. What do you think?

[Outsider]

1) It depends on how powerful you want your PCs to be in the world. I dont see a problem with the VPP method unless you're planning on having the PCs be in the 'worldshakingly powerful' category (ie Rand himself, Forsaken) in which case why -not- just give the characters an extra 300 points only usable to buy up their VPP?


2) Do recall that the characters are not necesarily going to be paying their own points for all the potential power they might be wielding. There are those items that act as One Power Multipliers. It might require a well little bending of the published rules, of course. (ie additional VPP+Control, on an Independent Obvious Accessible Focus, limited such that it will not increase a given user's power by more than some percentage or factor, or will not do so at all except for certain effects)

Example :

The Obsidian Dagger :
A multiplier for male One Power wielders. It will increase the user's power for all uses by no more than 50%, or 20 pool points, whichever is less. The use of this increased power does not negatively effect the pool control roll (it is bought with the +1 advantage, no skill roll required, but only 1 added power point may be used per 2 natural ones (which DO require skill check))

The Figurine of the Blue Lady :
A multiplier for female One Power wielders. It will increase the user's power for any healing use, up to double, or 30 pool points, whichever is less. Unlike the Obsidian Dagger, this additional power does require greater skill to use.

[Eosin]

These are constructs for an AVERAGE Aes Sedai - this allows them to Shield at an Average Level as noted above. Channelers have very little limitations - as a general rule there are no components, incantations, gestures, or concentration - many of the common limiters.


One Power: Multipower, 105-point reserve, (105 Active Points); all slots Requires A The One Power Roll (-1/2), (Weaves Only -1/4)
REAL POINTS: 60

The One Power: Variable Power Pool (Magic Pool), 105 base + 30 control cost, (157 Active Points); Requires An One Power Roll (-1/2), (Weaves Only -1/4)
REAL POINTS: 135

The kicker for my decision is that your pool has to accomadate the highest active point power that is common - like Shielding but there are plenty of oother weaves that are nearly as costly, if not more so.

A way around this would be to put a 5 divisor on the One Power - making the MPP 12 points for an average Channeler and the VPP cost 27 real points to the player.

I guess it is prudent to spell out that I am building the construct for what I consider to be the Average FH game which is a 150 point game (base + disads). Already the VPP is priced out of range for a beginning character but the MPP with a /5 looks like it could be do-able. The real kicker would be figuring out how much to charage for Affinities and Talents, which could quickly escalate out of control.

I have some more tweaking but it will have to wait until tomorrow when I am off of work.

Thanks for the input. The system is still evolving in my head so making me consider other options is helpful.

My goals with this:
PRIMARY: Make it so that a mixed Fantasy Party is viable in a 150 point game. The Channeler should NOT make the rest of the party obsolete but should otherwise adhere to the magic system as described in the novels as closely as possible.

SECONDARY: Have the system be portable into other game settings with minimal fuss (That is - exclude as much specific setting stuff as possible).

[Edsel]

The One Power: Variable Power Pool (Magic Pool), 105 base + 30 control cost, (157 Active Points); Requires An One Power Roll (-1/2), (Weaves Only -1/4)
REAL POINTS: 135

I hate to nitpick but... if a VPP can be re-alocated during combat then a skill roll is required as a default. Only if the VPP powers can only be changed out of combat is a skill roll not required. If you can shift your pool points during combat w/o a skill roll being required it is a +1 Advantage. So your control cost should actually be 42 points.

Interesting stuff though even if I'm not a big WoT fan.

[Outsider]

105 active points seems pretty extreme for an 'average' aes sedai in a 150 point fantasy setting who is not supposed to make the rest of the characters either obsolete or turn them into supporting cast.

105 active =
7D6 Killing attack
21D6 Normal Attack
10D6 Entangle
21D6 Mind Control
21/21 Force Wall
14/14 Force Wall - Zero Endurance