VPPs: Your experiences

[Whitewings]

Nexus and I had a disagreement on the subject of VPPs; in his experience they're too often used to play "anything you can do, I can do better," but in mine they're more often used for "Can anyone here... never mind. Jacknife!" So this got me to wondering, in your experience, how are field-changeable VPPs most commonly used? Do they more often help games, or hurt them?

[Sketchpad]

I would say it depends on the player ... I've seen them abused, as well as being a useful tool. In my current campaign, Mrs. Sketchpad plays a mage with a Magic Pool and she loves it ... it allows for freedom of powers, but she also has various restrictions on it (like Wild Surges ).

[Whitewings]

I would say it depends on the player ... I've seen them abused, as well as being a useful tool. In my current campaign, Mrs. Sketchpad plays a mage with a Magic Pool and she loves it ... it allows for freedom of powers, but she also has various restrictions on it (like Wild Surges ).

I'd guess her magic revolves around drawing stuff? Sound fun.

[Publius]

Are VPPs a "rule-buster"? Not in my experience, but I keep a pretty tight hold on VPPs, some good successes:

I once had a Fantasy game that I was running where I used a low-point VPP as a "Cantrip Pool", that was very useful and because the point value was set very low it did not get abused too badly.

For some reason my PCs don't play Gadgeteer types. NPC villains on the other hand do. I try to make my villains just as rounded as the PCs and thus rather than give them the death-ray machine as hand-waving, I try to fashion such stuff as a rather significant gadget pool that maintains the "theme" of the bad guy ("only weather-related gadgets" or "Only for use as the villain's Plot Driving Secret Weapon" i.e. rather than as a utility belt for several useful lower-point items). OKay so this sometimes get costly, and in the end hand-waving would be practically the same, but it is always nice as an intellectual exercise.

I have been experimenting with True Shapeshifting as a Multiform-based VPP, but I haven't worked the kinks out yet.

[Lord Mhoram]

I am too effecient with VPPs as a player, so I don't run them anymore. As a GM I am leery of them. We don't usually have the "better than you" problem. The main problem is extreme versitility.

Aside from a gadget pool that provides all of a character's power, we have settled in general on a decent compromise between versitility and power. As most characters in our game with decent sized VPPs usually have some decent defences, and usually a little skill or power outside the pool, we do the following.
Active points in pool cannot be greater than the pool reserve (usually at a -1 or so). This makes a pool an infinite slot multipower, but doesn't overwhelm the game. If you have a cosmic with no limitiations you are looking at a cost of about 8-10 slots in a MP (assuming all ultra slots).

Example
Cosmic MP (60)
each slot is the full 60 pts, all ultras at 6 pts a slot
with 8 slots that gives you a total cost of 108

Cosmic Pool (60)
Reserve 0 phase, no skill +2 on reserve
Limitation -1
reserve total cost 45
Total cost 105

For those of us in the game that want the versitility this is a fair comprimise, and has worked very well for our group for years.

[Publius]

I would say it depends on the player ... I've seen them abused, as well as being a useful tool. In my current campaign, Mrs. Sketchpad plays a mage with a Magic Pool and she loves it ... it allows for freedom of powers, but she also has various restrictions on it (like Wild Surges ).

Actually, if I can lure my S.O. (She Who Must Be Obeyed) back to the gaming table, I might do this for her PC (Madam Megawatt) who has electrical powers. My S.O. kept coming up with some really cool ideas for using her electrical powers, they just were not stuff on her sheet. I used the Power skill for some of these as most were largely one-shot uses, but it was a real stretch sometimes and she felt rather confined.

I guess when doing something like this, you should consider the player as you suggest. Some have a good sense of the dramatic action and will not abuse it, some will do anything to win and take it right to the edge. Know your players and maybe if you have any doubts you could tell them that you reserve the right to say "no" for purely dramatic reasons if they take the VPP. If they accept the bargain, they cannot really complain about it too much later.

[Whitewings]

Active points in pool cannot be greater than the pool reserve (usually at a -1 or so).

I don't see how that counts as a limit, when a normal VPP doesn't let you exceed the pool's size in AP anway.

[nexus]

I feel I should explain my position better. I hope this doesn't sound too jerky.

I am not comfortable with large, practically unlimited VPPs. Too many times in my experience they are used to upstage other PCs in their area of expertise or particular niche. That's just been my experience and once burned twice shy, as the saying goes.

Also, as a GM I find VPPs a real pain to deal with. Silver Surfer, Green Lantern types are hard to deal with. In story they can suffer from PIS when needed but PCs have no such limitation. Just from some of the terrible things I've done to GM's plot with VPPs, I know of the potential headaches (I'm not claiming to be an angel here). Its something I prefer not to deal with.

I do allow combat variable VPPs, but I prefer to them to fairly limited and defined, even for high powered games. Like I have character with VPP Weather Control and Another with a Mimic pool. Useful but not so potentially game breaking and hard to plan for. IMO. Its not the one true way and If you're a gm with more skill that can handle them, I envy you. But that is how I prefer to keep things.

[Sketchpad]

I'd guess her magic revolves around drawing stuff? Sound fun.

heh .. nope That's not her character's name, just her name on the boards She's playing a chaos mage in my Champions game that's kinda like a warped Cardcaptor

[OddHat]

Played well they work fine, but I enjoy them more in solo games. Mrs.Oddhat is also playing a Witch with a VPP in a solo game right now, and she's having great fun with it.

In groups, I prefer to see the special effects tightly restricted, limits pre-defined ("You may choose up to -1 from the following") and the active points lower than those of the other players, but in the case of a good player I might be less strict. I also like to see VPP characters with very clear weaknesses in other areas (if in a group).

Night Hunter is a VPP based character I'd be comfortable with in the hands of most fairly good players. Low active point powers and a clearly defined special effect (with built in limits) plus low speed, he's not likely to rain on the parades of other players.

The Light is a tougher case. Her powers are only 50 active points, which means that the other players will have more raw power (probably much more), and again her SPD is low. Still, her power level is such that she could start to seriously intrude on the teritory of other players. A 50 active point power is an easy scenario breaker as well, and she has Summon as an option in the VPP (a very cheesy power in the hands of a rules mechanic). I'd only give her to a serious role player I trusted, and wouldn't use her at all in a con game.

Always has a nice cleanly defined special effect with very clear limits on what he can and can't do with his VPP. He's powerful, but I would be willing to let any good player use him.

Once you start getting into 80 Point Cosmic VPPs, I'd have to either be running a solo game or have players I knew well and trusted before I'd let that in.

[OddHat]

I am too effecient with VPPs as a player, so I don't run them anymore. As a GM I am leery of them. We don't usually have the "better than you" problem. The main problem is extreme versitility.

Aside from a gadget pool that provides all of a character's power, we have settled in general on a decent compromise between versitility and power. As most characters in our game with decent sized VPPs usually have some decent defences, and usually a little skill or power outside the pool, we do the following.
Active points in pool cannot be greater than the pool reserve (usually at a -1 or so). This makes a pool an infinite slot multipower, but doesn't overwhelm the game. If you have a cosmic with no limitiations you are looking at a cost of about 8-10 slots in a MP (assuming all ultra slots).

Example
Cosmic MP (60)
each slot is the full 60 pts, all ultras at 6 pts a slot
with 8 slots that gives you a total cost of 108

Cosmic Pool (60)
Reserve 0 phase, no skill +2 on reserve
Limitation -1
reserve total cost 45
Total cost 105

For those of us in the game that want the versitility this is a fair comprimise, and has worked very well for our group for years.

That is a very good idea.

[Champsguy]

Quite simply, I don't allow a power inside a VPP that I wouldn't allow outside of a VPP. If you wouldn't ordinarily let someone buy Desolid, Usable As Attack, then you sure as hell don't let someone have it through their VPP. Likewise, be sure to limit the character from buying an Aid inside their VPP and then using that on the EB they also bought in the VPP. That sort of thing can get kind of nasty pretty quickly.

Pay close attention to the description of a VPP. Going from memory here, but I believe it says something to the effect of "a VPP may produce any power of a given special effect". In that sense, "Cosmic Power", or "whatever I feel like right now", is too broad. You probably shouldn't be able to control the weather, shapechange, and use telemechanics in the same VPP.

[Lord Mhoram]

I don't see how that counts as a limit, when a normal VPP doesn't let you exceed the pool's size in AP anway.

Real points in a pool cannot exceed the reserve, and active points in any one power cannot exceed pool reserve, but you could have, for example, two 60 point powers in a 60 point pool, assuming each had -1 in limitations.

The limitation I describe for our games means that no matter how many limitations you pile on to your powers you can never have more than 60 active points total (in the above example).

[Chuckg]

Pretty much everybody in the New Sentinels game has some VPP, either because of primary shtick (such as Starguard's "Magical Girl On Archangel Steroids" routine) or to represent that they're such experienced superheroes that their list of 'mastered power stunts' goes off the page.

So far, it's worked, and I think it's because we remember these rules:

a) Know Your Special Effect, And Stay Inside it Religiously

For example, Starguard's special effect is pretty durn liberal (I am the Magical Girl, after all), but her understanding of the forces involved is that of a novice's. So, you get Force Walls, Holy Auras, Tunneling, and other such things that are easily understood, as opposed to massively esoteric enchantments that manipulate the very fabric of the manasphere so as to bring about the massively subtle whatever.

Likewise, Horus-Re, Champion of the Unconquered Sun, God of Truth, has a VPP he can use to augment his already prodigious strength (his most common usage), or for various 'sun god' powers, like his detecting lies, his shining sun-god aura, his PRE boost, his ability to give vampires a lethal suntan just by standing there, etc, etc. But if he tried to use it to suddenly pull some Healing effect out of his butt, or turning lead into gold, or etc. the DM would frown.


b) Active Point Cap.

The max size of any one power is the pool reserve, and requests to cheese around it are flatly denied.


c) We're Not Gonna Wait, Dammit

Have your slots written up ahead of time and/or be able to write really damn fast between Phases, because the game will not wait while you flip through the design manual.

And it helps if you get as many slots pre-approved by the GM before the game as possible.

[Lord Mhoram]

Going from memory here, but I believe it says something to the effect of "a VPP may produce any power of a given special effect". In that sense, "Cosmic Power", or "whatever I feel like right now", is too broad.

To quote, "A character with thei Power Farmework establishes a pool of character points from which he can use to create any Power, or any Power with a given special effect.

In the pool sidebars there is the "Cosmic Power Pool" This Power Pool can be whatever the character wants whenever the character wants it.

So yeah, you can do that, thought I don't see it popping up all that often. Playing a low level Silver Surfer or something. I ran a "godling" once with a 40 pointer - could do anything he imagined with it. Not too common though.