Announcement From Hero Games

[Captain Obvious]

I don't think you are aware of the ramifications at all. I think you are HOPING that there will not be a backlash but you are wrong. There will likely be a massive backlash. And you are more likely to go out of business from lack of retailer support than the current RPG slump. Retailers have long memories and we don't like being blindsided.

Speaking personally, my local retailer has nothing to fear from me making the decision to buy more from the online store. There is still a lot of Hero stuff that I don't have, and that I'm not really itching to buy, but as soon as I see it on the shelf, I will probably pick it up. And especially since they carry comics, collectible card and miniature games, and some "collector" type toys, I'd say that they have more eggs in their basket than Hero does, and can afford to lose a sale or two in such a small segment of their overall market better than Hero can afford to lose sales in their only market.

I'd hate to see your business suffer, especially if you make an effort to carry Hero products. I would expect that keeping the products on the shelves would still benefit you, though, since most people I know rarely buy a game online that they haven't already played, and there are those established players, like me, who end up liking what they see, but only after they see it.

Just my two cents. I'm not a businessman, though, so your view will probably differ.

[Mark Taylor]

The UK credit card market is a paragon of cut-throat competitiveness. 0% interest cards and cards that return you a percentage of the purchase price are commonplace and widely used.

0% interest for six months I see frequently. Permanently, I haven't seen. Links? As for returning a percentage of purchase price, of what benefit is that to credit card providers? Unless they are gouging you in other areas, they would be losing money. Again, maybe you could provide links.

Credit cards are routinely used for large purchases by anyone with any sense so I think you are mistaken across the UK as a whole if you say the usage of credit cards is in any way not the norm.

I did not say that they are not the norm, only that Switch cards are even more the norm, accounting for an even higher volume of transactions. Plus I have no sense.

Why not get one? It is in a good cause of helping Hero Games after all! If you feel you run the risk of abusing the card, ask for a low credit limit - GBP 250 say.

No I don't think I'm at risk of abusing it, but I'm not the most organised person. I have enough difficulty keeping track of all my monthly, quarterly and annual bills and all the incoming and outgoing transactions on my bank account without having to add a whole new level of complexity to the situation by adding a credit card account too. I already frequently give myself a headache trying to untangle an ungodly complex web of completed and forthcoming transactions and what money is going where, when for what purpose and what money is coming from where, and when, and in what order... all to try to find the solution to what you would think would be the relatively simple question "how much money do I actually have anyway?" I'd like for my brain not to explode in the near future, thanks.

[Teflon Billy]

As I've said before I'd be a lot more inclined to buy from the online store if you accepted PayPal. I suspect a lot of UK customers may feel the same way, because Switch is such a universal means of payment here many people in the UK do not bother to have credit cards. In my case, the ability to purchase items from HERO Games' store is quite literally my only incentive to get a credit card and pay the fees etc. that go along with it. It's not that attractive a proposition, especially right now with the credit card industry in the UK coming under fire for their business practices. Given that you are (understandably) asking your customers for help, I don't think it is too much to ask that you make it a little easier for them by accepting what is now a very popular and convenient method of payment among internet users worldwide.

To be honest, I'm also little torn between loyalty to HERO Games (who are a great company and produce great products) and loyalty to my FLGS owner (who runs a great store and is also a personal friend). I've always tried to avoid buying my gaming products anywhere else if at all possible, because I believe he runs a good business for comparatively little reward and it's worth supporting. I can't see myself changing this policy when it comes to buying books. However I am willing to go out of my way to buy more electronic products such as Character Packs, PDFs and Digital HERO Subscriptions direct from HERO Games. If you won't consider accepting PayPal, I will even consider applying for a credit card purely so that I can do so.

Do they not have Debit Cards in the UK?

Every Bank and Credit Union in the US has Visa/MC Logo debit cards that work just like credit cards but come directly out of your checking account. With no additional fees (beyond what fees your bank charges for holding an account with them.)

I haven't needed a Credit card for 7 years because of the convenience of them.

TB

[Mark Taylor]

Do they not have Debit Cards in the UK?

Every Bank and Credit Union in the US has Visa/MC Logo debit cards that work just like credit cards but come directly out of your checking account. With no additional fees (beyond what fees your bank charges for holding an account with them.)

I haven't needed a Credit card for 7 years because of the convenience of them.

TB

Pass. The only debit cards I know about are Switch, Solo, Maestro and Delta. Ask Shadow Warrior? He seems to know about this stuff.

[Shadow Warrior]

Mark Taylor

0% interest for six months I see frequently. Permanently, I haven't seen. Links?

Of course not permanently. They are lending you money after all and I assume as you are currently using a debit card you're not looking to borrow money beyond the next bill anyway. The best at present is this one, with 9 months at 0%... Halifax Credit Card. Of course, if you're looking to borrow the money beyond 9 months, when the 9 months is up you transfer the balance to another one of the dozens of 0% cards.

If you were looking to borrow long term and didn't want to move from one card to the next, this one is 3.9% on balance transfers forever (cheaper than any other lender type by miles)... Texaco Credit Card

As for returning a percentage of purchase price, of what benefit is that to credit card providers?

Getting your custom.

Unless they are gouging you in other areas, they would be losing money

No, because the retailer pays a (higher) percentage of the purchase price as a handling fee.

Again, maybe you could provide links.

There are literally dozens. I plucked this Mastercard out of a list at random. It pays you 0.8% of the purchase price... iPledge Credit Card

only that Switch cards are even more the norm, accounting for an even higher volume of transactions

But not of what counts, financial volume. It makes sense for any large purchase to use a credit card. The finance company by law accepts joint liability with the retailer, so if you don't get the goods or the retailer goes bust or quibbles over a refund or replacement you go to the card company for your refund instead. No bank will (or is required to) do that if you use a debit card - you're on your own. In the case of buying with a credit card, if there is a problem, the operator of the retailer's merchant account will simply grab the money back from the retailer's account and then fine them substantially, giving you your money back direct to your account - no quibbles. Try walking into HSBC and telling them you want your money back because something you bought with a Maestro card doesn't work and the retailer has done a runner or gone bust. They'd laugh you straight out of the door.

I have enough difficulty keeping track of all my monthly, quarterly and annual bills and all the incoming and outgoing transactions on my bank account without having to add a whole new level of complexity to the situation by adding a credit card account too.

I suggest you pay the balance with a direct debit. It will be the amount owed taken the day the balance is due so you get the maximum amount of interest free credit. As you will only be using it for Hero purchases, it won't be much to budget for.

Don't be afraid of credit cards - join the other 66 million in the UK - you're literally throwing money away and exposing yourself to financial risk by not using one. Plus, it helps out Hero! Only idiots who use them to borrow money long term should have any kind of issue.

Kind Regards,
Marc.

[rjcurrie]

Do they not have Debit Cards in the UK?

Every Bank and Credit Union in the US has Visa/MC Logo debit cards that work just like credit cards but come directly out of your checking account. With no additional fees (beyond what fees your bank charges for holding an account with them.)

I haven't needed a Credit card for 7 years because of the convenience of them.

TB

Not every country in the world is the US. As Mark has already said, the Switch card is a Debit Card. Canada also does not have MC/VISA branded Visa cards, we have Interac. Interac was up and running for several years in Canada before Debit Cards really started to appear in the U.S. I suspect the same is probably true of Switch in the UK. I would guess that it like Interac is actually run a consortium of the banks themselves. Since the banks had already cornered the market before MC and VISA got into the act, those companies probably did not enough attempt to bring their Debit Cards into Canada and I suspect that may be true of the UK too.

Overall, my bet is that like Canada, the UK has more a banking industry with more government regulation than the US -- such a system usually results in a few very big, very powerful banks and very few small ones. As a result, these banks have less need for services provided by third party companies and are also able to co-operate better (because there are fewer of them).

Rod

[Shadow Warrior]

Ask Shadow Warrior? He seems to know about this stuff.

Only because credit cards are a license to print money and I am a stinking capitalist!

Do they not have Debit Cards in the UK?

Yes, many. The two most common are Maestro/Cirrus and Delta.

Every Bank and Credit Union in the US has Visa/MC Logo debit cards that work just like credit cards but come directly out of your checking account.

Same in the UK. Delta (operated in the UK by Barclays Bank) is an example of just such a Mastercard logo'ed debit card.

With no additional fees (beyond what fees your bank charges for holding an account with them.)

Even better in the UK - no retail bank charges a private customer for a standard checking account. They gouge business accounts instead.

[Mark Taylor]

Same in the UK. Delta (operated in the UK by Barclays Bank) is an example of just such a Mastercard logo'ed debit card.

So if I had a Delta card I could use it to pay in HERO Games' Online Store (who only accept Visa and MasterCard)? Is that correct?

[Shadow Warrior]

Interac was up and running for several years in Canada before Debit Cards really started to appear in the U.S. I suspect the same is probably true of Switch in the UK

Used to be similar years ago (Switch was originally a petrol station forecourt system operated on behalf of a consortium of oil companies by Midland Bank) but not so now. Now it is just part of the global Maestro/Cirrus brand and is accepted by retailers world-wide. I've used mine over the counter in the US many times and in US ATM machines to make withdrawals direct from my UK checking account in greenbacks.

[Shadow Warrior]

So if I had a Delta card I could use it to pay in HERO Games' Online Store (who only accept Visa and MasterCard)? Is that correct?

Depends on the T&Cs of Hero's merchant account (about which I am blissfully unaware). Minor error on my behalf, Delta is Visa branded, not Mastercard*. You can certainly use Delta cards to withdraw money from Visa branded ATMs in the US but, as I say, it would be up to the T&Cs of Hero's merchant account in this case.

*I personally have a Mastercard branded HSBC debit card (but as you might expect, I never use it).

[Mark Taylor]

Used to be similar years ago (Switch was originally a petrol station forecourt system operated on behalf of a consortium of oil companies by Midland Bank) but not so now. Now it is just part of the global Maestro/Cirrus brand and is accepted by retailers world-wide. I've used mine over the counter in the US many times and in US ATM machines to make withdrawals direct from my UK checking account in greenbacks.

So what's to stop HERO Games accepting it? Presumably it doesn't come with the drawbacks of PayPal.

[Mark Taylor]

Depends on the T&Cs of Hero's merchant account (about which I am blissfully unaware). Minor error on my behalf, Delta is Visa branded, not Mastercard*. You can certainly use Delta cards to withdraw money from Visa branded ATMs in the US but, as I say, it would be up to the T&Cs of Hero's merchant account in this case.

*I personally have a Mastercard branded HSBC debit card (but as you might expect, I never use it).

So in other words Visa / MC branded debit cards only work like their equivalent credit cards with merchants who have the right set-up? That does not seem to be the same as what certain other posters were saying or implying about them. Perhaps the UK ones are different in that respect?

Sorry for asking so many questions but to be honest I have already trawled the web for this kind of information several times and have NOT been able to find a site with information that actually answers these questions.

[rjcurrie]

Used to be similar years ago (Switch was originally a petrol station forecourt system operated on behalf of a consortium of oil companies by Midland Bank) but not so now. Now it is just part of the global Maestro/Cirrus brand and is accepted by retailers world-wide. I've used mine over the counter in the US many times and in US ATM machines to make withdrawals direct from my UK checking account in greenbacks.

The Canadian banks cards which the Interac system is based on can be used at ATMs in the US (through deals with Cirrus and Plus) , but they cannot be used as debit cards in the US. Up here, Interac is just an extension of ATM cards that allows your ATM card from any bank to be used at any bank's ATM or as a Debit Card at stores which accept them. Currently, though, I don't think there is anything set up for Interac cards being used online.

Rod

[rjcurrie]

So in other words Visa / MC branded debit cards only work like their equivalent credit cards with merchants who have the right set-up? That does not seem to be the same as what certain other posters were saying or implying about them. Perhaps the UK ones are different in that respect?

Sorry for asking so many questions but to be honest I have already trawled the web for this kind of information several times and have NOT been able to find a site with information that actually answers these questions.

I think Shadow Warrior may have been just covering his butt with the "depending on T&C" clause. I used to have a US bank account with a VISA Debit Card and it was usable anywhere that took VISA. Of course, I'm not sure what the current situation with Hero Games accepting international cards is -- there was at least some point where they didn't. So even having a credit card might not do you any good.

But, as Darren said, this request is pretty much aimed at their US customers.

[Shadow Warrior]

So what's to stop HERO Games accepting it [Maestro/Cirrus... ed]? Presumably it doesn't come with the drawbacks of PayPal.

Only the T&Cs of their merchant account with the card processing company, which as a retailer, you take or leave (negotiation is not an option unless you're turning multi-multi-millions). I'm not saying it does or doesn't, just that some do and some don't.

Virtually nothing comes with the drawbacks of PayPal.

In terms of retailer profitability, Maestro/Cirrus (if your merchant account allows you to accept them) is better than Visa/MC/AMEX, as the transaction fee the retailer pays is a flat fee (typically GBP 0.35) rather than a percentage of the total (which could be upto 3.5% or even more if your seen as being at high risk of fraud). The reason the fee is a flat charge is because the risk to the intermediary of default is lower as the money is reserved in your checking account.