Support for Low Level Supers style Dark Champions

[nexus]

Currently, Dark Champions seems to be revamped (or defined, I guess might be the proper word) as the "action movie style" for Hero which is good enough, except I'm more a fan of Dark Champions as just that, low level supers dealing with more "realistic" but occasionally powered crime such as Daredevil, early Spiderman, Punisher, occasionally Batman without even the "kiddifying" that is done for animated series versions of these characters. Fourth Edition DC seemed to have more information about that style of play while Fifth almost ignores it favor of modern day action. Is there going to be any support for street level supers in upcoming products for Dark Champions?

[nexus]

I guess what I'm saying is I got the impression that Street Level supers just didn't get as much respect in this edition of Dark Champions. Its almost been renamed "Dark Champions:The Animated Series" which implies, at least subtly that is only for children and must be simplistic. It didn't get the props the other genres did.

[Toadmaster]

Now this is interesting, I found it stayed too close to the street supers it was in 4th ed and didn't include as much "action Hero" as I had hoped and expected.
I don't know what the deal is with The Animated Series stuff, I don't see the relation to either form of Dark Champions.

[Lord Liaden]

Actually, nexus, your remarks are a little ironic, because from its description it sounds as though the upcoming subgenre book, Dark Champions: The Animated Series deals with just the sort of game you're describing.

Here is the website promotional info for it, and here is where Steve Long and DC:TAS author Allen Thomas describe the focus of the book and solicit input on it.

[Citizen Keen]

Nexus - sounds like you got your wish. It's even set in Hudson City, so you can use Hudson City, and when the characters hone their powers to the point where they're real supers, you can take the fight to Millenium City.

[nexus]

I will indeed check out Dark Champions: The animated series, but this part of my issue. If I can try to explain in a less ranting manner. The subtitle "Animated series", and some of the writting and comments in Dark Champions, implies that "vigilante" series that include characters with minor powers have to be somehow more childish and "comic book" that "traditional" Dark Champions. I think (and enjoy) characte in such a setting can have some minor abilites and be quite gritty and violent. Powers don't automatically create a four color morality or less lethal envionrment. It doesn't have to be a "Cartoon".

[Sketchpad]

Personally, from what I've read, DC:TAS reminds me of the Marvel Knights comics, as well as Batman and probably Nightwing ... I think TAS seems to be a way to connect it to the superhero genre, even if it is a bit darker or less "super" than 4-color games

[nexus]

I really hope so and I will give the book a chance, but the impression I got from Dark Champions core worried me.

[Lord Liaden]

I will indeed check out Dark Champions: The animated series, but this part of my issue. If I can try to explain in a less ranting manner. The subtitle "Animated series", and some of the writting and comments in Dark Champions, implies that "vigilante" series that include characters with minor powers have to be somehow more childish and "comic book" that "traditional" Dark Champions. I think (and enjoy) characte in such a setting can have some minor abilites and be quite gritty and violent. Powers don't automatically create a four color morality or less lethal envionrment. It doesn't have to be a "Cartoon".

No disrespect intended, nexus, but I get the impression from your remarks that you're not too familiar with the original Batman: The Animated Series, which from Steve Long's remarks is the primary inspiration for the title of this book. That series was anything but childish and four-color. The environment was very dark and gritty, the violence often pronounced although rarely lethal (on-camera, that is), the plots frequently clever and involved, and the characters complex, conflicted and often appropriately twisted. IMHO the style of that show fit well with all but the darkest Batman comics stories, as well as most Daredevil, Moon Knight and the like. (And the feature length Mask of the Phantasm based on that series, which was released in movie theaters several years ago, even more so.)

If DC: TAS captures that feel, I don't think you'll be disappointed.

[nexus]

No disrespect intended, nexus, but I get the impression from your remarks that you're not too familiar with the original Batman: The Animated Series, which from Steve Long's remarks is the primary inspiration for the title of this book. That series was anything but childish and four-color. The environment was very dark and gritty, the violence often pronounced although rarely lethal (on-camera, that is), the plots frequently clever and involved, and the characters complex, conflicted and often appropriately twisted. IMHO the style of that show fit well with all but the darkest Batman comics stories, as well as most Daredevil, Moon Knight and the like. (And the feature length Mask of the Phantasm based on that series, which was released in movie theaters several years ago, even more so.)

If DC: TAS captures that feel, I don't think you'll be disappointed.

I've very familiar with it. I've been a fan for a long time. But that is not the impression I got from the remarks in Dark Champions. I mean that games with powers and superhuman abilites can be just as dark and vigilante as any game with nothing but gun toting hardcases. Look at some of the fourth edition material with character like Germ. Powered Dark Champions doesn't have to be suitable for children or have a PG 13 rating. Maybe I am flying off the handle, but those implied comments just rubbed me the wrong since I have run campaigns of "Dark Champions" which are quite dark, morally gray, etc and have had superhuman abilities.

[Toadmaster]

No disrespect intended, nexus, but I get the impression from your remarks that you're not too familiar with the original Batman: The Animated Series, which from Steve Long's remarks is the primary inspiration for the title of this book. That series was anything but childish and four-color. If DC: TAS captures that feel, I don't think you'll be disappointed.

Well if that is true I just might get it, I really liked that Batman series. I probably won't use it but I'm more likely to play in a game like that than a standard Champions game. I was also under the impression the TAS was going to be "light hearted" DC.

BTW there is now a 4 disc DVD set of Batman TAS, it says Volume 1 so I assume a 2nd set is in the works. I also liked the fact that the series used the voice of Batman from the sillys 60's Batman series (his name escapes me at the moment), for a character in one of the episodes (Grey Ghost?) it is the only "re-make" I can think of that gave some credit to the past.

[Captain Obvious]

Batman from the sillys 60's Batman series (his name escapes me at the moment)

Adam West.

[Publius]

BTW there is now a 4 disc DVD set of Batman TAS, it says Volume 1 so I assume a 2nd set is in the works.

Volume 2 is out already and gracing my shelves. I picked it up with Superman TAS and I am waiting Batman Beyond and Justice League (in the form of entire sets, I will not be buying those already out peicemeal and spending way more on them). All of these series did an excellent job with characterization and plot complexity.

Thus far I have only caught one of "The Batman" on WB. It looks okay, but I would not want to make a determination based on only one episode.

BTW, anyone caught "Gotham Girls"?

[Sketchpad]

The Batman is pretty good ... kind of dark in some ways and does a great job of reinvisioning the core characters ... mind you it's not B:TAS, but it's still pretty damn good

[Andrew Cermak]

I guess what I'm saying is I got the impression that Street Level supers just didn't get as much respect in this edition of Dark Champions. Its almost been renamed "Dark Champions:The Animated Series" which implies, at least subtly that is only for children and must be simplistic. It didn't get the props the other genres did.

There are four different flavors of "street" supers/crimefighters presented in Dark Champions: Vigilante Crimefighting, DC: TAS, Iron Age Champions, and Street-Level Champions. You seem to be focusing on the one that is least like what you want and then complaining that you're not getting what you want.