Fixed/Flex Multipower

[jursamaj]

I was just reading the FAQ on Frameworks, and an idea I'd had before came back to me. I don't know if this has been brought up before, but consider the possibilities of a semi-fixed slot. Normally, a 100 point slot will cost either 10 (fixed) or 20 (flex). But if the slot were 50 fixed/50 flex, it would cost 15 points. When activated it would have to be at least 50, and could go up to 100, if other slots allow. Thus, it has limitation to justify the reduced cost, while maintain more flexibility than a fully-fixed slot. Any thoughts?

[Citizen Keen]

This seems entirely plausible, and fair and balanced. It makes sense for a laser gun that has a certain amount of flex, but must be fired at a minimum power level in order to do some damage.

I would allow this in a second as a GM. And rep.

[Dust Raven]

While strictly not rules legal (but there's a loophole from a certain perspective), you can always just make two slots. The rules state that you can't have two slots that are Linked together, but don't ban two slots that just add together (I think, I haven't seen the text in 5ER).

You can write it up as:

u 5 Slot One: 50 Active Points of a Power
m 10 Slot Two: +50 Active Points to Power

You can't use Slot Two unless you already have enough points in the reserve alloted to Slot One (because, as with using a HA without STR, you can't add to something without using what you are adding to).

[Mike W]

I'm with Dust RAven on this one. Prior to 5th edition, you might have needed something like what Jursamaj is talking about, but with the ability to buy naked advantages any excuse you would have had for such a thing is gone. Just buy extra slots for anything over the "minimum"

[Citizen Keen]

Rep for Dust Raven. I'm always interested in seeing how to make a good idea (like Jursamaj's) rules legal, because I use a lot of Hero Designer, and it gets cranky when you break the rules.

[Hugh Neilson]

Rep for Dust Raven. I'm always interested in seeing how to make a good idea (like Jursamaj's) rules legal, because I use a lot of Hero Designer, and it gets cranky when you break the rules.

As an HD fix, just use a flex slot, assign a -1 limitation to half the slot, and call it "fixed slot". This is why I don't use HD - I get tired of having to trick the SW.

[Citizen Keen]

But Dust Raven's doesn't feel like a trick - it feels like a wholly legitimate solution. Two slots, one ultimate and one not.

[Simon]

While strictly not rules legal (but there's a loophole from a certain perspective), you can always just make two slots. The rules state that you can't have two slots that are Linked together, but don't ban two slots that just add together (I think, I haven't seen the text in 5ER).

You can write it up as:

u 5 Slot One: 50 Active Points of a Power
m 10 Slot Two: +50 Active Points to Power

You can't use Slot Two unless you already have enough points in the reserve alloted to Slot One (because, as with using a HA without STR, you can't add to something without using what you are adding to).

Actually, from a straight rules-perspective, that's not legal.

Two different slots of a Power Framework cannot add to or modify each other. In the same way that you can't use two different slots in an MPA.

As for having to "trick" HD, the only reason it's not there as an option is because it is not rules legal. HD is built for 5th edition rules. You can make it do what you want, but you'll need to do a little "tricking" in order to get there, as you are working outside of the rules of the system.

[Simon]

Also, if you want to "trick" HD into allowing it, you'll have a much easier time by just enabling Cost Multipliers....then you can put the items into a List and "roll your own" Framework.

Set the cost of the list, set the multiplier on each slot....and you're good to go.

[Hugh Neilson]

I would agree that (from my very limited use of HD - my wife likes it, but I prefer Excel), it's only unusual constructs and/or constructs where a house rule is involved (commonly for a limited power, or custom advantage) that we need to "trick" it.

My general avoidance of HD is largely driven by the fact I'm comfortable with the math and the rules, and I don't want to use software that's slower for me. If I were starting Hero today, I'd probably end up using it. [And you're not even out any sales - my wife buys it so it's on our PC.]

[Dust Raven]

Actually, from a straight rules-perspective, that's not legal.

Pretty much what I said.

Two different slots of a Power Framework cannot add to or modify each other. In the same way that you can't use two different slots in an MPA.

As for having to "trick" HD, the only reason it's not there as an option is because it is not rules legal. HD is built for 5th edition rules. You can make it do what you want, but you'll need to do a little "tricking" in order to get there, as you are working outside of the rules of the system.

I haven't had any trouble "tricking" HD. Just buy the two slots and make one fixed and the other flex. After exporting, I pull it up in my word processor and type in a '+' in front of the dice in the second slot. HD allows this just fine (which is the loop-hole ).

[Sean Waters]

The problem here is that you are getting points for free. Having the ultra on 50 points with the option of adding another 50 points if you like isn't really a limitation as, in any game where you were able to throw a 20d6 EB it is extremly unlikely you'll ever have cause to throw anything less than 10.

Now to an extent it depends on the power you are talking about, the circumstances in which you use it and so on, but assuming you are talking about an attack power I do not see why you should get away with points savings for using a power in a way you would inevitably use it in any event.

Buy two 100 point fixed slots for 20 points, or buy the base (50 point) effect outside the multipower, so that slots can add to the effect.

[Dust Raven]

The problem here is that you are getting points for free. Having the ultra on 50 points with the option of adding another 50 points if you like isn't really a limitation as, in any game where you were able to throw a 20d6 EB it is extremly unlikely you'll ever have cause to throw anything less than 10.

Now to an extent it depends on the power you are talking about, the circumstances in which you use it and so on, but assuming you are talking about an attack power I do not see why you should get away with points savings for using a power in a way you would inevitably use it in any event.

Buy two 100 point fixed slots for 20 points, or buy the base (50 point) effect outside the multipower, so that slots can add to the effect.

It depends on the circumstances. In games I run, a 6d6 EB is useful, and being forced to devote 50 points to one would be a disadvantage. If anything less than the "fixed" value isn't useful, I agree it shouldn't be allowed.

[Silbeg]

It depends on the circumstances. In games I run, a 6d6 EB is useful, and being forced to devote 50 points to one would be a disadvantage. If anything less than the "fixed" value isn't useful, I agree it shouldn't be allowed.

While I agree, in some perspectives...


Why not just add a ¼ limitation to the multi-slot of "Must use 50 active points, minumum" or something. I believe that comes out to 16 points, which is pretty close (and shows the extra versatility as well...). That seems fair enough to me.

Though, I am not really convinced that it would even affect the character 25% of the time (which would make it a -0 limitation). I probably wouldn't allow it in my game, or would just make it a -0 limitation (and some players would accept that, surprisingly!)