Western Hero related thread

[Glabutz]

I know it has been spoken about a FREd version of Western Hero for 2009 , But I'd like to use it sooner.

So I may ask a few questions, that some may answer with the old WH, that I don't own, since I'm a 5th Ed newcomer.

So there they are :

1. The duels

Duels are an important part of the Western feeling (at least for us, Sergio Leone & Clint Eastwood fed europeans). How can you use that feeling ? Is there rules for this, rather than just a fast draw skill ?

I was wondering of a ECV contest, with a fast draw malus for the looser. What do you think ?

May holding action help to create the "Sergio Leone " feeling ?


2. Mortality

Life of a Western Hero is not that simple. You can't get your ultra cool plate armor, nor this kevlar suit.
Fights gonna be deadly.
That's the way it should be .Since players are hero, hey should not die agains only one henchman, but this can change if they face the level big boss.

What do you think of using "Hero Points", for exemple, non used xp, that you could trade for a +3 bonus on a skill roll, attack roll or that reduce the body loss by 3 points, or Stun by 6 ?

3. "Rodeo" and such "I'm a horse riding star"
Just a Riding roll ?
No great fun...

[Starwolf]

Here are a few thoughts I have about Western Hero gunfights. This assumes you are trying to create a cinematic feel, real gun fights were very rarely like the movies.

1) Assmume all opponents have held prepared actions.
2) all opponents make a dex roll (modified by lightning reflexes). The skill sleight of hand and the talent combat sense would act as complimentary skills. This determines the order of the to hit rolls.
3) Roll to hit, roll hit location, roll damage.
4) if any dex rolls match then fire is simultaneous and those opponents get to roll hits, locations, and damage even if the rolls inidicate kills (this could result in both gunfighters dieing).

Note that this is not Phased movement, just a single action. If there are more than one opponent then use this system during phased movement starting when the first shot is fired. Rapid/autofire rules apply to shooting more than one opponent.

And Finally while there is no plate mail, or kevlar, there is DCV levels, combat skill levels, and Combat Luck (this one is the most appropriate for WH IMO).

Having said all that I think my favorite Western Hero Movie Genre characters would be Matthew Quigley (played by Tom Seleck in Quigley Down Under), Texas Ranger Augustus McCray (played by Robert DuVall in Lonesome Dove), and Rex O Hurlihan, The Singing Cowboy (played by Tom Berringer in Rustlers Raphsody).

[Glabutz]

Having said all that I think my favorite Western Hero Movie Genre characters would be Matthew Quigley (played by Tom Seleck in Quigley Down Under), Texas Ranger Augustus McCray (played by Robert DuVall in Lonesome Dove), and Rex O Hurlihan, The Singing Cowboy (played by Tom Berringer in Rustlers Raphsody).

I will have difficulties to answer to that, since we have a tradition of stupid translations for old westerns movies.

The only one I know and remember (and really liked) in his true title is "The Man Who Killed Libety Vallance". Good classical movie, with a Cow-boy hero that is not what anyone thinks he is.

But my favorite Cow-Boy is Clint, whatever the movie was, may he be pale Rider, unforgiven or a yojimbo .

And in Sergio Leone's movie, he was so good....!

[tiger]

I have to agree with Starwolf.

Assuming everyone is holding then go by highest dex. Modified as necessary by Lightning Refelexes and the like.

Skill like quick draw or Slight of hand would modify minus to OCV for drawing a weapon but I wouldn' think it would help for first shot. After all it wasn't only being able to draw fast but was aslo being able to hit the opponent.

I agree that character wouldn't have armor. You just have to hope that your opponent either misses or hits you badly. Personal armor came around much later. Although you could pull an Eastwood and make some for yourself.

I like the John Wayne movies, ajorly hooked on Big Jake, and the Eastwood flicks. I also enjoy the Selleck movies and TV movies for Lamar books.

[Toadmaster]

I only played in one Western Hero campaign so I don't recall how much was covered on things like show downs in the rules as opposed to gm tips, but it worked fairly well for the typical high noon show down and big climactic town shootem up, where our campaign went bad was when the gm set an ambush around the high noon show down, we were set up for an OK corral type show down with the bad guys but they had marksmen in surrounding buildings, who shot us all in the back, that was the end of that campaign but I don't think it would have gone much better in other genres either.

You might be able to find 4th ed Western Hero on Ebay, I've seen several listed recently at reasonable prices. If you like the genre I thought the book was well written.

[Peregrine]

Originally posted by Starwolf
Having said all that I think my favorite Western Hero Movie Genre characters would be Matthew Quigley (played by Tom Seleck in Quigley Down Under), Texas Ranger Augustus McCray (played by Robert DuVall in Lonesome Dove), and Rex O Hurlihan, The Singing Cowboy (played by Tom Berringer in Rustlers Raphsody).

Ah, Quigley. I ran a Justice Inc character who was Matthew Quigley's nephew (we assumed that the events of the movie actually took place in the early 1890's, as it had a feel of 'the American frontier is closed' to it). And I have a modern Champions character who is the great-nephew of the JI character.

Can you tell that I loved Quigley Down Under?

[JohnTaber]

Hi Gents,

How about some new ideas added to Starwolf's reply...

1) Assmume all opponents have held prepared actions.
2) all opponents make a dex roll (modified by lightning reflexes). The skill sleight of hand and the talent combat sense would act as complimentary skills. This determines the order of the to hit rolls.

[John] What about Dex roll with Lightning Reflexes plus any or all of the the following as complimentary...
+ Slight Of Hand
+ Ego Roll?
+ Every 5 pts you make on a Pre attack? Stare em down.
+ Every 2 levels burned add +1 to the resulting roll?

3) Roll to hit, roll hit location, roll damage.
4) if any dex rolls match then fire is simultaneous and those opponents get to roll hits, locations, and damage even if the rolls inidicate kills (this could result in both gunfighters dieing).

[Captain Obvious]

Don't underestimate the effect of PRE attacks in the opening phase of a high-noon style gunfight. A small hesitation on your enemy's part precludes the need for a fast-draw roll altogether....

[Herolover]

This is going to assume that you are wanting cinematic duels. As someone stated earlier the real thing bears no resemblance to what we see on tv. If you want the real thing make no changes to combat whatso ever.

There are two types of duels. The "staredown" and the timed duel.

Timed duel.
This is the duel where there is a woman dropping a handerkerchief, a clock or town bell set to go off, or the ending of a stop watch song.

The duel starts at phase 12 (of course) The GM secretly picks a turn and a phase when the "timed action will happen." An example would be 2nd turn phase 5.

The characters use their actions to perform PRESENCE attacks or other interactive skill actions. This could have several effects on their opponent, making them act slower, makeing them nervous and wanting to draw early, or making them nervous giving them penalties to their attack rolls.

A duelist could draw before the time, but then they would look bad/loose/be dishonored/bad stuff.

When the timed action goes off the players a free to draw and the looser is probably dead.

The other type of draw the "staredown" is effectivvely the same except there is no "timed action."

So why not just draw first and shoot you say? Because if you draw and first you can be charged with murder.

[sbarron]

I haven't looked at my copy of Western Hero in a while, but I seem to recall that in duels:

1) Everyone is assumed to be holding their action until the phase the duel starts
2) Characters make a fast draw roll to see who goes first. In the event a character doesn't have fast draw, they make a Dex check
3) Characters could sacrifice speed for OCV buy "hurrying" their shot, I think on a -1 OCV for +1 fastdraw/Dex roll basis.

I never actually played a Western Hero duel out this way though. We always went for realism. For the sake of cinimatic duels though, I think adding some kind of PRE attack would be cool. Maybe every 5 pts over opponents PRE caused -1 to fastdraw roll, or something.

As far as charcters taking damage, most of the characters stated out in WH had lots of body. Since there was no armor, that makes sense. These days I'd let the PC buy 1 or 2 pts of Combat Luck. That should keep them alive long enough to get to the big boss, but not make things too safe for them.

[Glabutz]

After reading all this, I grab that old Western hero that was sleeping in that old shop.

I didn't knew that ICE developped sold Hero Games in 1991...

But, I'm glad to have it, and can't wait fr the 5th Ed. Whatever, meanwhile, can I use the charactes in that book without translating them ? Can I also use the weapons like that or should I translate them ?

[Alibear]

I found that guns in Western Hero were just not deadly enough unless you use all the optional rules for bleeding, diabled, injured, hit locations etc.
After all, a 1d6 rka can take a lot of shooting before people actually fall.

[tmutant]

Shameless bump.

[Tom Carman]

Originally posted by Glabutz
I know it has been spoken about a FREd version of Western Hero for 2009 , But I'd like to use it sooner.

So I may ask a few questions, that some may answer with the old WH, that I don't own, since I'm a 5th Ed newcomer.

2. Mortality

Life of a Western Hero is not that simple. You can't get your ultra cool plate armor, nor this kevlar suit.
Fights gonna be deadly.
That's the way it should be .Since players are hero, hey should not die agains only one henchman, but this can change if they face the level big boss.

Here are a few things I recall from Western HERO: Body damage is tracked on a per-wound basis, not just general damage. A successful application of Paramedic (and maybe also PS: Doctor) can reduce a wound by one Body with several minutes of work. (There may have been a rule about this healing not "taking" if the location of the wound gets hurt again within a few hours.) Any wound of one Body is considered to be healed after a day.

So without much rDEF, weapons are pretty lethal. But if you survive a attack you can get patched up and be (almost, usually) "as good as new" in time for your "next scene".

[SuperPheemy]

Other characters who deserve mention in conversations about Cinematic Westerns.

Rueben "Rooster" Cogburn - from True Grit
Paden, Emmett, Mal, and Jake - from Silverado
J. B. Brooks - from The Shootist
Sheriff Bart and the Waco Kid - from Blazing Saddles
Mongo - from Blazing Saddles
Cole Thornton, and Mississippi - from El Dorado
Marshal Matt Dillon, Ms. Kitty, Festus, and Chester - from Gunsmoke.

All in addition to the characters already mentioned in the thread.