Introductory Supers Game

[Muawijhe]

I'm a big fan of HERO, and I want to switch my current playing group over to it and play some Supers games. Unfortunatly, they're relatively new to role-playing in general, and haven't really played a supers game before. I was wondering if anyone could recommend a good supers game (four-color) that is a bit easier for newer players to grasp off the bat than HERO? Thanks in advance.

[Lord Liaden]

Let me start by answering your question, and then showing you how you could easily start them with HERO.

For a non-HERO supers game, my suggestion would be Mutants and Masterminds by Green Ronin. Good balance between simplicity and flexibility, very four-color feel, and quality support both in published books and online at the company's website.

Getting people to learn how to play HERO isn't as tough as it used to be, though. For one thing, there's HERO System Sidekick, the greatly slimmed-down (128 pages) intro version of the game, specifically designed to teach newbies the system. It's only $10.00 for a bound softcover copy, or $7.00 for a PDF from Hero Games's Online Store.

Then there's all the free online help available, starting with these discussion boards. You can also try the FAQs link in the blue banner at the top of this page. The section of the FAQ called "Working With the HERO System" gives very good simple explanations to common newcomer questions.

Next to that link is "Free Stuff", and if you go to the "HERO System Documents" there you can download a couple of PDF files that make good handouts for players: one with a summary of the basic game concepts, the other a condensed combat summary.

There are other resources available, but I'll shut up now until and unless you mention anything else you would like.

[Muawijhe]

Thanks a lot for your help, Liaden. I think I'll give both Sidekick and M&M a try.

[Trencher]

No-no-no! MnM is ill suited to beginning players! It has an enormous heap of feats, rules and more rules. You could just as well learn 3.5 dnd from scratch!
For beginning players I say classic marvel super heroes, it takes ten minutes to learn and is loads of fun for little work. I am sure you can find the rules in a gamestore.

[zornwil]

Trencher, I don't think MnM is so tough for new players, but to your point I'll say it's not as if it's super-easy, either.

As to the "classic" Marvel game (assuming you're referring to the game from the mid/late '80s), it's harder to find in game stores, bear in mind they (Marvel) put another game out since then. But you're right that it's an easy beginners' game.

Personally, I think you could run 1st/2nd edition Champions just as easily, though.

[Trencher]

I never tried 1st or 2nd edition of champions. I would be very surprised if it was as easy as the first marvel game.
I recommended marvel because it is the simplest system I have ever tried and I was impressed with how much milage you get from such a simple system.
And for the record I said that MnM is as difficult as DnD it is not like I said it was impossible to learn, I just don't think that DnD is is easy to learn anymore.
The reason for this is that DnD has a lot of unique feats, spells and special abilities. All of who you must remember individually the rules are different for each thing, unlike Hero where everything is built over the same mechanics. Hero is a little difficult to get your head around for some, but when you have learned it, it is easy to remember and to read the most powerful characters without having to double check what improved shield bash or sepia snake sigil does.
Since MnM is built over DnD it adopt many of the same problems. Luckily it does not have as many extra rules as DnD .
I have had great success in teaching new players who know nothing of dnd the Hero system. The reason dnd is seen as "easy" to learn is that everybody else knows the rules and can help you out. But if the lord of madness here is going to teach a group from scratch then it is not any real reason to start with dnd, you can just as well start with marvel, lots of fun for little effort and when your players are ready to move on you go over to the Hero system.

[SCUBA Hero]

Muawijhe,

I'd suggest Sidekick plus the soon-to-be-released Villany Amok, which would seem to provide good plots and situations for newcomers to a supers RPG.

[Hugh Neilson]

I'm a big fan of HERO, and I want to switch my current playing group over to it and play some Supers games. Unfortunatly, they're relatively new to role-playing in general, and haven't really played a supers game before. I was wondering if anyone could recommend a good supers game (four-color) that is a bit easier for newer players to grasp off the bat than HERO? Thanks in advance.

Sure.

"Invisible Mechanics Hero".

You discuss the types of characters they want to play, and you build their characetrs for them. They get enough information on their powers and stats, and the remated mechanics, to be able to run them in play.

Their ability descriptions should include no point costs, and provide only the details they need. For example, "Flame Bolt: OCV 8 12d6 3 END" is quite adequate. The player does not need to know it's a 12d6 Energy Blast, 1/2 END, does no knockback, cost 60 points normally, and part of an Elemental Control. He needs to know it does 12d6.

I say "no knockback" because, to make it easier, you can just make all attacks "no knockback". The players don't need to know they could have been doing Knockback, or that they got a -1/4 limitation for the absence of this ability.

Mechanics - only to the extent the characters need to know them. For example, everyone likely needs to know aboput OCV and DCV. An egoist needs to know about ECV. A Brick does not. No one needs to know the range modifier rules - you can compute these from the characters' positions.

[JmOz]

I would say Sidekick as well:

I also a sheet I worked up a while ago, here is some linkage on discusion of it

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22709

[zornwil]

I never tried 1st or 2nd edition of champions. I would be very surprised if it was as easy as the first marvel game.
I recommended marvel because it is the simplest system I have ever tried and I was impressed with how much milage you get from such a simple system.
And for the record I said that MnM is as difficult as DnD it is not like I said it was impossible to learn, I just don't think that DnD is is easy to learn anymore.
The reason for this is that DnD has a lot of unique feats, spells and special abilities. All of who you must remember individually the rules are different for each thing, unlike Hero where everything is built over the same mechanics. Hero is a little difficult to get your head around for some, but when you have learned it, it is easy to remember and to read the most powerful characters without having to double check what improved shield bash or sepia snake sigil does.
Since MnM is built over DnD it adopt many of the same problems. Luckily it does not have as many extra rules as DnD .
I have had great success in teaching new players who know nothing of dnd the Hero system. The reason dnd is seen as "easy" to learn is that everybody else knows the rules and can help you out. But if the lord of madness here is going to teach a group from scratch then it is not any real reason to start with dnd, you can just as well start with marvel, lots of fun for little effort and when your players are ready to move on you go over to the Hero system.

I know what you mean re talents and feats and all that, not dismissing it, I just don't see it as so bad.

However, I think it's easier to learn HERO if you never learned d20 and easier to learn d20 if you never learned HERO, they each teach some powerful prejudices and ingrained habits. I had a surprisingly hard time in learning MnM, and it was mainly just because I had never played d20 (had played AD&D but this is still very different now) and many of the concepts and "extra" (to me) steps were hard to remember.

PS - 1st/2nd Champions was indeed a LOT simpler, think of it as 1/5 of HERO, just the basics.

[BlackSword]

Sure.

"Invisible Mechanics Hero".

You discuss the types of characters they want to play, and you build their characetrs for them. They get enough information on their powers and stats, and the remated mechanics, to be able to run them in play.

I will just echo this as my suggestion. Hero is very easy to play, but the character creation can be quite a chore. If you build the characters (and Hugh provides some good ideas for simplifying it even more) then it will make it easier for the players to learn the mechanics and then they can learn more powers and advantages/disadvantages as they earn XP and start to add to their character.

I like Hugh's idea of adding in the OCV in the attack description.

This is similar to the way I learned it, my first Hero game (2.5 years ago) the GM made my character based on my idea. I looked at it, read the relevant parts in the book for each power I had and played. It was much easier (for me) to go back and re-read parts of the book and understand the powers after having a few sessions under my belt.

[Trencher]

I wonder what he did and how it went..

[fredrik_nilsson]

You don't need to 'find Classic Marvel, its on the webs for free.

Here are both some conversion notes, and a complete set of the old Mavel RPG.

[fredrik_nilsson]

So to with Marvel SAGA, and many other games that litter the days of yesteryear.

I have yet to find PDFs of DC or Marvel SAGA, so if someone knows where to find them please tell me.

[Jhamin]

I have yet to find PDFs of DC or Marvel SAGA, so if someone knows where to find them please tell me.

It isn't a PDF, but try this..

http://hammer.prohosting.com/~quibly/SuperRPG/