Secondary & Figured Chars

[C_Zeree]

I am building a character and I believe I may have found a glitch. Possibly just because of the way I am building the character.

I am adding characteristics via powers instead of changing them on the characteristic tab, and I hit the snag. I am doing this because they are a template (prefab) that I want to export to other beasties.

Anyways, this particular character also gains some stats OIHID.

My problem:
Using the prefab I give +6 Dex (Primary). This gives a SPD of 2.6. Then the prefab also gives +1 SPD (Primary) this should put the primary SPD at 3.6

Now OIHID:
There is a +7 DEX (Secondary). This should provide a Secondary SPD of 4.3. On top of this the character also gets +2 SPD (Secondary) for a total of 6.3 secondary and 3.6 primary.

However HD gives me 3/5 for my SPD.

I have not checked the other Secondary Figured chars to see if there is the same effect.

Is this a problem? Or am I not thinking about Secondary/Primary and figured characteristics correctly?


My thanks

[Simon]

You're not figuring them correctly.

+1 SPD does not give you 3.6, it gives you 3.

+7 DEX (secondary) gives you a secondary SPD of 3 (3 + .7 = 3).

+2 SPD (secondary) gives you a secondary SPD of 5.

HD's value of 3/5 SPD is correct.

[Monolith]

This is going to go the way of the STR rounding thread.

There character has a 10 DEX, +6 DEX from the prefab (I assume racial), +7 DEX from the OIHID. That is a total of a 23 DEX, and thus a 3.3 SPD. On top of this the character gets +1 additional SPD from the (racial) prefab and +2 additional SPD from OIHID. That should be a total of 6.3 SPD, which rounds to 6.

So this character should be 16 DEX 3.6 SPD in normal form, and 23 DEX 6.3 SPD in heroic form.

[Monolith]

C-Zeree, if you just give the character the 16 DEX and the 3.6 SPD, and then buy the additional as power/characteristics the numbers will work out correctly for you. Prefabs just do not work out well for defining racial characterisitcs because apparently they do not round in a normal fashion. So if you want your "alien" character to have +6 DEX and +1 SPD just give it to them in the Characteristics tab for now.

[C_Zeree]

Originally posted by dsimon
You're not figuring them correctly.

+1 SPD does not give you 3.6, it gives you 3.

+7 DEX (secondary) gives you a secondary SPD of 3 (3 + .7 = 3).

+2 SPD (secondary) gives you a secondary SPD of 5.

HD's value of 3/5 SPD is correct.

::sigh::

If that is the way it works, than so be it. I did not mean to dredge up a subject that has been touched upon. Thanks for your quick reply.

Monolith thanks. As you said the racial package should just be applied to the characteristics directly.

[Simon]

It won't go the way of STR and Leaping. This isn't a rounding issue.

The main problem is that C_Zeree is trying to use prefabs for something that they're not intended. Prefabs are not premade characters. You don't purchase characteristics in a prefab. If you want a premade "character template" to use as a starting point, just save the file as a character (.hdc) and then open it and "save as" when building a character.

SPD when purchases as a Power does not get the benefit of "partial points" provided by DEX.

They way he is purchasing his DEX is explicitly stating that the +7 DEX adds into his secondary characteristic.

His Primary SPD is base 2.6. Then he buys +1 SPD on the Powers tab. This gives him a primary SPD of 3.

+7 DEX adding into the secondary characteristic gives him a secondary SPD of 3 (his primary) + .7 -- in other words, 3.

+2 SPD adding into his secondary gives him a secondary SPD of 5.

--------------------------

If he instead chose to add the +7 DEX into his primary, it would give him a base SPD of 3.3.

+1 SPD on primary would give him a primary SPD of 4.

+2 SPD on secondary would give him a secondary SPD of 6

The difference here is in when he chooses to add in the SPD and the DEX.

In the example that C_Zeree gave, he is explicitly telling the app to add in the +7 DEX to the secondary characteristic -- <b>after the purchase of a point of SPD "rounds" his SPD to a whole number</b>. In fact, there is no rounding occuring....the partial points of SPD only apply when going up (or down) to the next increment from the base value. They do not get "carried" to the secondary value unless the secondary value starts out at the base (i.e. the primary value is the unaffected base).

[Monolith]

Originally posted by dsimon
The main problem is that C_Zeree is trying to use prefabs for something that they're not intended. Prefabs are not premade characters. You don't purchase characteristics in a prefab. If you want a premade "character template" to use as a starting point, just save the file as a character (.hdc) and then open it and "save as" when building a character.

I understand completely, and I even agree with you, but what you are saying here is that all the Prefabs I just "purchased" for Star Hero, for example, are useless. I just paid money for 70 prefabs the system will not allow me to use properly because most of those prefabs have Characteristics included in them. That does not seem fair to me.

I think games like Star Hero and the upcoming Fantasy Hero line are going to put a huge demand on the prefab system. There are just too many racial and "class" templates which include increased characteristics as part of the package deal. You cannot make character sheets for both racial and "class" package deals that add characterisitcs because most of the time a player will need to take two or more at the same time. Example: Half-Orc package might have +5 STR and a "Barbarian" package might have +3 CON and "Skimmer" package might have +3 DEX. That is three separate character sheets.

My personal preference would be for the Characteristics tab to also have a Prefab tab. That way if people wanted to Use the Half-Orc, Barbarian, and Skimmer packages they could click those names on the Characteristic Prefab tab and all characteristics associated with that package deal would be increased. Is something like that possible for version 2? It just seems with Fantasy Hero due out soon that Prefab package deals are going to become even a large issue than they are now.

[Simon]

Originally posted by Monolith
I understand completely, and I even agree with you, but what you are saying here is that all the Prefabs I just "purchased" for Star Hero, for example, are useless. I just paid money for 70 prefabs the system will not allow me to use properly because most of those prefabs have Characteristics included in them. That does not seem fair to me.

They're certainly not useless...you just need to know how to use them. If there are Characteristics defined on the Powers tab for a prefab and those Characteristics do not have any Modifiers applied to them (and affect the Primary Value), then just purchase those Characteristics on the Characteristics tab instead of the Powers tab. They're not terribly "complex". You'd need to remember a number....like "+7 DEX" when you go from the Powers tab to the Characteristics tab.

I will certainly look at changing this for v2, but I won't make any promises....I don't like the idea of "tabbing" the characteristics tab....I think that will make it unduly cumbersome/complex. One thing that might help would be to have an additional button in the Characteristic dialog when buying a Characteristic as a Power. This button would allow you to specify whether to buy the Characteristic as a Power or as a Characteristic. It would only be available if the totaling option was set to primary and there were no Mods on the Characteristic. This would allow you to purchase Characteristics (note: not Characteristic Powers) in prefabs. I'm just not sure about the idea of having to do it on the Powers tab....

Like I said, I'll give it some thought....

[C_Zeree]

Originally posted by dsimon
They're certainly not useless...you just need to know how to use them. If there are Characteristics defined on the Powers tab for a prefab and those Characteristics do not have any Modifiers applied to them (and affect the Primary Value), then just purchase those Characteristics on the Characteristics tab instead of the Powers tab. They're not terribly "complex". You'd need to remember a number....like "+7 DEX" when you go from the Powers tab to the Characteristics tab.

I agree they are powerful and very handy. I think it was a kick butt idea to have them. I just needed to know how they worked.

I can see Monolith's point about the "prefab" character though. It makes me hapy that we have the "ear" of the lead programmer and that he'll think about it. HD is a great tool and I would continue to use it even if it had less bredth, but I am glad it does not and all the more happier.

Enjoy the day.