Mutliform and Followers/Bases

[Seenar]

Form 1 has 2 Followers a Base, and a really snazzy car.
Form 2 has none.

I move from Form 1 to Form 2. What happens to my followers, base and car? Can I still access them?

I ask, because this seems an easy way to spend lots of points on extras while still having a full 350pt character for fighting.

[Sean Waters]

That's very funny.

The answer is 'No': you can't access them. You'll have to decide why. Perhaps they only respond to the first form, perhaps they don't exist if the first form doesn't.

Nor can you (assuming they do not disappear) change to Form 1, order your minions to help Form 2, and then change to Form 2 to receive said help. You couldn't even, legitimately order your resources (whilst in Form 1) to help your mates while you are in Form 2.

The whys and wherefores will depend on what the forms are. If Form 1 is a suave buisnesswoman and Form 2 is a huge slavering dragon/killing machine you are only ever in for a short time, you might get away with it. Or if Form 2 is a permanent dweller on another plane of existence, fine, but in most cases this just won't be a viable construct.

But it did make me laugh.

[Silbeg]

Agreed, Sean.

Simply put, a specific form from a multiform character only has those resourses/abilities that the form has paid for.

This goes for perks as well as skills, powers, and really, even knowledge in many cases. There is no reason that Form B knows what Form A does (unless the skills merit the sharing of infomration). This is more of an SFX issue, but should be noted.

If Joe Normal turns into Uberman (who is a manifestation of a cosmic entity), it is entirely likely that Joe doesn't remember what Uberman did (and vice versa). Each form is technically a different entity. This is especially true if the personality loss limitation was taken on the power.

It is also likely, in this case, that Uberman doesn't actually know the followers (who would have no reason to follow him, anyways), nor know about the base, or have keys to the car!

[Hugh Neilson]

The bottom line is that, unless there is some reason the followers, base, vehicle, etc. would not be available to the other form(s), then every form should be required to pay for these perks.

[taustin]

Nor can you (assuming they do not disappear) change to Form 1, order your minions to help Form 2, and then change to Form 2 to receive said help. You couldn't even, legitimately order your resources (whilst in Form 1) to help your mates while you are in Form 2.

And if you try, the minions might well assume that Form 2 has captured and brainwashed (or just replaced with an evil clone) Form 1, and devote all their resources to rescuing their Fearless Leader from Form 2.

[Sean Waters]

And if you try, the minions might well assume that Form 2 has captured and brainwashed (or just replaced with an evil clone) Form 1, and devote all their resources to rescuing their Fearless Leader from Form 2.

...which would also be really funny!

I can feel a plot coming on....

[Seenar]

So, when Jaguar changes, the part of the Base and SLingshot he paid for shuts down?

[TheEmerged]

My rule of thumb is that a character can only buy "1 for 5" items (followers, bases, vehicles, etc) on the base form, excepting a Darn Good Reason(tm). One of the exceptions I've allowed was a Multiform character that had Multiform on one of its forms -- because Multiform was the easiest way to build that form's "change into animals" power

[Seenar]

My rule of thumb is that a character can only buy "1 for 5" items (followers, bases, vehicles, etc) on the base form, excepting a Darn Good Reason(tm). One of the exceptions I've allowed was a Multiform character that had Multiform on one of its forms -- because Multiform was the easiest way to build that form's "change into animals" power

So GM's judgement. I think that makes the most sense. The more have thought about this, the more I have drifted in that direction.

[Sean Waters]

So, when Jaguar changes, the part of the Base and SLingshot he paid for shuts down?

Even the professionals make design bloopers from time to time. That's why these discussion boards are just so darn useful.

Oh s**t - he's changed to Jaguar: the air con's shut down and the top speed of this thing just dropped by 20%...

[Dust Raven]

That's very funny.

The answer is 'No': you can't access them. You'll have to decide why. Perhaps they only respond to the first form, perhaps they don't exist if the first form doesn't.

Nor can you (assuming they do not disappear) change to Form 1, order your minions to help Form 2, and then change to Form 2 to receive said help. You couldn't even, legitimately order your resources (whilst in Form 1) to help your mates while you are in Form 2.

The whys and wherefores will depend on what the forms are. If Form 1 is a suave buisnesswoman and Form 2 is a huge slavering dragon/killing machine you are only ever in for a short time, you might get away with it. Or if Form 2 is a permanent dweller on another plane of existence, fine, but in most cases this just won't be a viable construct.

But it did make me laugh.

I disagree 100%. That's not to day that you can buy the Followers/Whatever on you cheaper unused form and use them with all the forms, just that the default isn't that they go by-by.

Using common sense and reasoning from the character's concept, it should be obvious what happens, or at least easy to figure out. I'm sure that if Jaguar changed to human form the base and the jet would be just fine, and that the other Champions would let him inside and that is security codes would still work, unless he didn't reveal is secret identity/other form to them. Then it wouldn't have access.

My call would depend upon the character, the specific Followers/Whatevers they've bought and which which form(s).

[TheEmerged]

RE: Jaguar. Of course, Jaguar is the "base form" (pun intended)...

[prestidigitator]

I have thought for some time that the system is screaming for a partial Multiform. I mean, it seems awefully common for characters to retain all or most of their Perks, Disadvantages, mental capabilities, and Skills in their alternate forms, but having to re-build the entire character and pay for the things that haven't changed in the new form just doesn't quite seem right. I'm not sure what the solution is (I have seen other proposals, but none of them really clicked with the, "Hey! That sounds right," feeling), but I think there should be one eventually.

[Sketchpad]

Personally, I'd say they don't have access ... at least not until both forms can pay for it .. my reasoning?
1) Look at Optimus Prime from G1 Transformers. In his robot form, he has a follower and base, but in truck mode (at least intitally) he didn't seem to have access to them (that is till he quickly paid for them in both forms).
2) For Jaguar ... True, Jaggy did pay for the access, but his secret ID didn't .. so the Secret ID doesn't have access to the base, plain and simple

[Dust Raven]

I have thought for some time that the system is screaming for a partial Multiform. I mean, it seems awefully common for characters to retain all or most of their Perks, Disadvantages, mental capabilities, and Skills in their alternate forms, but having to re-build the entire character and pay for the things that haven't changed in the new form just doesn't quite seem right. I'm not sure what the solution is (I have seen other proposals, but none of them really clicked with the, "Hey! That sounds right," feeling), but I think there should be one eventually.

Partial changes are most often covered with OIHID on those abilities that are only in one form and not the other.

RE: Followers and Multiform

One way of looking at the I have Multiform and a Base/Follower/whatever is like we look at Multiform all by itself. No matter how many Multiforms you have, they are always paid for by the base form. If Jaguar were to have a full Jaguar form in addition to his human and jaguar-man forms, they'd all be paid for by the jaguar-man (base) form. Does that mean that Jaguar can't change into a jaguar while in human form, and that he has to spend a Phase in the half form to switch. Well, one might say that he has to "pass through" his half form to get to full jaguar but that's an issue of SFX and maybe a poor example.

What about those spiffy transformable mechs from Robotech. A Veritech had three forms. Jet, battloid and guardian. Arguably the Jet is the base form and pays for both the battloid and guardian forms, yet the vehicle can transform from battoid to guardian without becoming a jet first, yet neither the battloid or guardian has paid for the Multiform.

My point in this case is does it matter that only one form has paid for a Follower or Base? In my opinion, as long as it's the base form paying the points, the character has them and has access to them, just like he has access to all of his Multiform forms. What form he's in doesn't matter, what matters is that his character has paid for them (and always on the base form).