Drain

[instag8or19]

when you drain dexterity does it effect their ocv and dcv....the book says drains dont effect their figured characteristics...but is ocv and dcv a figured characteristic?

[Hugh Neilson]

OCV and DCV are not figured characteristics, so DEX adjustments change OCV and DCV (that's the major impact of DEX adjustments, at least IMO).

"Figured Characteristics" are PD, ED, SPD, REC, STUN and END, the six stats whose base value is figured from the 8 primary stats.

[Dust Raven]

That brings up an interesting question... is Leaping reduced when STR is Drained? What about Mental Defense when EGO is drained? Neither Leaping or Mental Defense is actually a Figured Characteristic... I've always ruled them as if they were though, and neigher are reduced when STR is Drained, but I'm wondering how other people do it.

[Dr. Anomaly]

That brings up an interesting question... is Leaping reduced when STR is Drained? What about Mental Defense when EGO is drained? Neither Leaping or Mental Defense is actually a Figured Characteristic... I've always ruled them as if they were though, and neigher are reduced when STR is Drained, but I'm wondering how other people do it.

Figured characteristics don't get changed when the primary stat is Drained. Check.

Are those things you mentioned Figured characteristics? Nope. Check.

Would they therefore get reduced when the characteristic on which they depend gets reduced? Yup.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Leaping is a definite YES in my book... its an exertion of the stat, not a figured aspect of it. Same as damage dice... if the target is weaker, he can't lift as much, hit as hard, or jump as far. Mental Def is debatable, but due to the way that its figured, I'd say that no, it's not drained. The formula is very similar to a figured stat, and you'd effectivly gain extra value for your drain against opponents with Mental Def, which doesn't quite feel right.
AS to the original question...
Yes OCV, DCV, and order of action would all be affected by a dex drain.

[prestidigitator]

Mental Def is debatable, but due to the way that its figured, I'd say that no, it's not drained. The formula is very similar to a figured stat, and you'd effectivly gain extra value for your drain against opponents with Mental Def, which doesn't quite feel right.

You have to remember, though, that all of that Mental Defense from Ego essentially cost 0 Character Points. A character who has bought no direct MD doesn't get that Ego/5, but one who has spent 1 Character Point on it (barring any Minimum Costs you may have imposed) gets 1+Ego/5. I'm just spiteful enough to say it gets reduced by a Drain on Ego. MD is awefully cheap (compare to Power Defense, Flash Defense, etc. that give no bonus based on any Characteristics). Besides, I'd have to say based on feel that as you become a mental weakling your mental barriers tend to be weakened. It makes sense. Just how I'd handle it.

[Silbeg]

You have to remember, though, that all of that Mental Defense from Ego essentially cost 0 Character Points. A character who has bought no direct MD doesn't get that Ego/5, but one who has spent 1 Character Point on it (barring any Minimum Costs you may have imposed) gets 1+Ego/5. I'm just spiteful enough to say it gets reduced by a Drain on Ego. MD is awefully cheap (compare to Power Defense, Flash Defense, etc. that give no bonus based on any Characteristics). Besides, I'd have to say based on feel that as you become a mental weakling your mental barriers tend to be weakened. It makes sense. Just how I'd handle it.

I wouldn't say that it is spiteful to say that! I would argue that Mental DEF doesn't keep the state of the character's EGO, it is only figured at the time that the character is targetted by a mental attack. Thus, it would also be refigured if the character's EGO was aided, or, technically, if nothing happened to the character's EGO at all...

[PhilFleischmann]

Don't forget that Mental Defense is a Defense Power, and therefore is Adjusted at half rate. So I wouldn't reduce MD when EGO is Drained, since it uses a slightly different rule than Draining EGO. You might differ, but the Defensive aspect does need to be taken into consideration somehow.

[Sean Waters]

If your 60 STR is drained down to zero, it makes no sense that you still have abs of iron, but your PD doesn't change. The 'figured not changed' rule is (IMO) clearly there to make things administratively tidier and easier. I agree that OCV/DCV/characteristic rolls/Mental Defence/Leaping and anything else I've missed that is not specifically a figured characteristic does go down. It makes no sense that figured characteristics don't also reduce, but to do so would make adjustment powers almost unplayable, so it's probably a good thing.

[prestidigitator]

Don't forget that Mental Defense is a Defense Power, and therefore is Adjusted at half rate. So I wouldn't reduce MD when EGO is Drained, since it uses a slightly different rule than Draining EGO. You might differ, but the Defensive aspect does need to be taken into consideration somehow.

I think it is. It takes 2 points of Drain to reduce Ego by 1. It takes reducing Ego by 5 (amortized) to reduce Mental Defense by 1. That means you have to do 10 points of Drain to reduce MD by 1. Compare that to draining MD directly, in which case you have to do 2 points of Drain to reduce it by 1.

[TheEmerged]

It's worth mentioning that making MD a figured attribute was mentioned in several 4th Edition supplements; my gaming group has done this for quite some time.

[Guyon]

Has anyone ever drained body?

[Wanderer]

when you drain dexterity does it effect their ocv and dcv....the book says drains dont effect their figured characteristics...but is ocv and dcv a figured characteristic?

Sorry to hijack thread, but does Aid/Succor affect figured characteristics ? I worked under the (perhaps mistaken) assumption that Adjustment Powers affected figured characteristics as a rule. Alternatively, can they be made to affect them, too (via Adder/Modifier) ? I'm presently away from my books. If they cannot in any case, I'll have to rethink a character a bit.

[Silbeg]

Sorry to hijack thread, but does Aid/Succor affect figured characteristics ? I worked under the (perhaps mistaken) assumption that Adjustment Powers affected figured characteristics as a rule. Alternatively, can they be made to affect them, too (via Adder/Modifier) ? I'm presently away from my books. If they cannot in any case, I'll have to rethink a character a bit.

Adjustment powers do not affect figured characteristics. Sorry to say, you'll probably have to rethink that character.

[Wanderer]

Adjustment powers do not affect figured characteristics. Sorry to say, you'll probably have to rethink that character.

Oh, well. It was that a single Aid/Succor keyed to a common occurence (being in holy ground, in direct sunlight or intense radiation, being enraged) raising all of the related Characteristics and Powers to the next power level is *such* an elegant and simple construct. But without Rec, End and Stun being raised by Aided Primaries, too, numbers do not fit precisely as I wish (because of different Char point costs). I will have to settle for suboptimal design, or add a clunkier set of linked limited Rec/End/Stun raises, too, and/or a limited End reserve. So far for saving space on char sheet (and some points