Shapeshift accuracy

[Wanderer]

if a character with persistent Shapeshift (say Sight/Hearing/Touch, any human shape), with or without addition of Cellular, Smell, and Radio, but no Imitation, uses it to keep up, and jockey between, multiple alternate identities (e.g. mundane, sanctioned superhero, law-breaking vigilante), are the facades unbreakable (i.e. short of dispelling the power, using Telepathy or a sense unaffected by it, or catching the character off-guard, nobody can ever suspect or prove the character isn't all what he seems), or does he need Disguise/Mimicry to make the change "flawless" ?

[Silbeg]

Interesting question...
Since he isn't trying to imitate someone else, I would allow this to work. More of a SFX thing than anything else. I say this, since it wouldn't require a power to have all of those identities (in a Superhero game).

Is that the character's only use of Shapeshift, or does he also shift into other forms?

If he does shift into other forms, and is expecting to copy someone, he would need either the skills, or the Imitation adder to be able to effectively copy someone.

If this is his only use of the Shapeshift power, I probably wouldn't even require the purchase of the power. At most, I would have him buy the Transform based "Instant Change", but even that wouldn't really be required.

[Hyper-Man]

...snip...
and jockey between, multiple alternate identities (e.g. mundane, sanctioned superhero, law-breaking vigilante)
...snip...

It might depend on how much public speaking he does since speach patterns, common phrases, etc. might be picked up by a good enough detective unless he has acting or something similar to compensate.

HM

[Wanderer]

Interesting question...
Since he isn't trying to imitate someone else, I would allow this to work. More of a SFX thing than anything else. I say this, since it wouldn't require a power to have all of those identities (in a Superhero game).

Is that the character's only use of Shapeshift, or does he also shift into other forms?

If he does shift into other forms, and is expecting to copy someone, he would need either the skills, or the Imitation adder to be able to effectively copy someone.

If this is his only use of the Shapeshift power, I probably wouldn't even require the purchase of the power. At most, I would have him buy the Transform based "Instant Change", but even that wouldn't really be required.

Well, the shapeshift is also meant to offer the character protection from law enforcement and Hunted harassment for vigilantesque activities: e.g. throwing off pursuers at a monent's notice, arriving in a public area disguised without causing alarm, occasional infiltration disguised as a harmless normal. However, Imitation is not added because the character is not envisioned as a spy/infiltrator first and foremost. It's more of an explanation for being able to keep up multiple IDs and moving in public areas without *always* being constantly harassed by big-resources Hunted like Viper, demon, mechanon, primus or until (i.e. justifying having them at 8-, and being a high-profile super). Plus, I like the idea of the character arriving at the crime in progress area disguised as a frail senior or adolescent, and shapeshifting into super form.

Moreover, I think some juicy subplots can be derived by a character with "any human" shapeshift, a bit of Disguise, and "lecherous" Psych Lim. Can we say kink and cheating

[Silbeg]

Well, the shapeshift is also meant to offer the character protection from law enforcement and Hunted harassment for vigilantesque activities: e.g. throwing off pursuers at a monent's notice, arriving in a public area disguised without causing alarm, occasional infiltration disguised as a harmless normal. However, Imitation is not added because the character is not envisioned as a spy/infiltrator first and foremost. It's more of an explanation for being able to keep up multiple IDs and moving in public areas without *always* being constantly harassed by big-resources Hunted like Viper, demon, mechanon, primus or until (i.e. justifying having them at 8-, and being a high-profile super). Plus, I like the idea of the character arriving at the crime in progress area disguised as a frail senior or adolescent, and shapeshifting into super form.

Moreover, I think some juicy subplots can be derived by a character with "any human" shapeshift, a bit of Disguise, and "lecherous" Psych Lim. Can we say kink and cheating

Given all of that, then he should buy the power, IMHO. Was just asking, to make sure...

[Wanderer]

It might depend on how much public speaking he does since speach patterns, common phrases, etc. might be picked up by a good enough detective unless he has acting or something similar to compensate.

HM

Exactly the angle I was curious about. If one does not extend the Shapeshift past the basic Sense groups, there are several uncommon means that can be used to blow up the cover (fingerprints, DNA, chemsniffers, energy signature, telepathy, dogs...) but how easy would for a detective without access to such evidence to realize that the very different-looking Victory the sanctioned U.S. Army superhero, Primacy the ruthless mutant supremacist vigilante, Dr. Osterman the playboy cosmetic surgeon, and Scarlet Rain the superpowered mercenary for the highest bidder/professional wrestler are the same person, just studying public appearances of each ID ?

[Dust Raven]

Exactly the angle I was curious about. If one does not extend the Shapeshift past the basic Sense groups, there are several uncommon means that can be used to blow up the cover (fingerprints, DNA, chemsniffers, energy signature, telepathy, dogs...) but how easy would for a detective without access to such evidence to realize that the very different-looking Victory the sanctioned U.S. Army superhero, Primacy the ruthless mutant supremacist vigilante, Dr. Osterman the playboy cosmetic surgeon, and Scarlet Rain the superpowered mercenary for the highest bidder/professional wrestler are the same person, just studying public appearances of each ID ?

With a little bit of observation and a really good Deduction Roll, a detective can figure anything out.

Basically, without Cellular, the character cannot change his DNA, fingerprints and retina, and anything depending on those cannot be fooled. Certain voice scanners might also not be fooled if they are bought Analyse; although the character can alter his voice, he still has the same vocal cords and a sensitive osiliscope (sp?) will notice the similarity between voices (well, in the hands of a skilled operator). Also, each identity will have the same handwriting.

Other than that, there is always circumstantial evidence. None of these "individuals" are every at the same place at the same time. One of them may appear when another of them is expected to be. Any one of them may slip and say something only one of the other's would know. Any skilled observer (such as someone who's bought and appropriate Analyse Skill) could pick out behaviour quirks, body language, etc. that are identical between all identities.

[Wanderer]

Basically, without Cellular, the character cannot change his DNA, fingerprints and retina, and anything depending on those cannot be fooled. Certain voice scanners might also not be fooled if they are bought Analyse; although the character can alter his voice, he still has the same vocal cords and a sensitive osiliscope (sp?) will notice the similarity between voices (well, in the hands of a skilled operator). Also, each identity will have the same handwriting.

All very good points, except for one thing: supposing a Shapeshift SFX that actually *changes* the body's shape (as opposed to Disguise/Mimicry Super-Skill), the character's shape and length of vocal cords also would change, so vocal analyzers would be always fooled.

[prestidigitator]

For the question of vocal disguise, I believe you just have to affect that Sense (Normal Hearing). But remember, too, that everyone has mannerisms that might be detected. Do you scratch your head when you are confused? Do you always say, "Wow!" when you are surprised? Do you always walk on the curb edge of the sidewalk? You may want to apply some uses of the Acting Skill to get around some of these issues, and perhaps think about when you will need to make some kind of Ego/Pre rolls to avoid doing something that is just instinctive for you.

As to whether it is, "unbreakable?" The answer is no. I can think of one very simple example of something that will give you away unless you employ some other Power(s)--like maybe Images applied to a particular Special Sense--and that is:

Detect: true identity/form

Good luck.

[Dust Raven]

All very good points, except for one thing: supposing a Shapeshift SFX that actually *changes* the body's shape (as opposed to Disguise/Mimicry Super-Skill), the character's shape and length of vocal cords also would change, so vocal analyzers would be always fooled.

And the shape and placement of the fingerprints too, and what big eyes and now unrecognizable retnas you have grandma! No. It doesn't work that way. Unless you pay for Cellular, you have the same vocal cords and everything else. They just "look" different.

[prestidigitator]

And the shape and placement of the fingerprints too, and what big eyes and now unrecognizable retnas you have grandma! No. It doesn't work that way. Unless you pay for Cellular, you have the same vocal cords and everything else. They just "look" different.

You don't need cellular to affect your voice. You need to affect Normal Hearing. That's an, "Additional Nontargeting Sense." However a, "vocal analyzer," would probably still be able to identify you without cellular. You would change to all, "outward appearances," though.

[Dust Raven]

I beg to differ. You don't need cellular to affect your voice. You need to affect Normal Hearing. That's an, "Additional Nontargeting Sense."

I didn't say voice. I said vocal cords. You might only need it versus Sight and/or Touch to change the shape of the fingers, but you need cellular to change the fingerprints. The vocal cords are no different. The sound of the voice changes, but the actual vocal cords remain the same (as with the retnas, DNA and other fun stuff).

[prestidigitator]

I didn't say voice. I said vocal cords. You might only need it versus Sight and/or Touch to change the shape of the fingers, but you need cellular to change the fingerprints. The vocal cords are no different. The sound of the voice changes, but the actual vocal cords remain the same (as with the retnas, DNA and other fun stuff).

Sorry. I rather realized this, and edited my post. I don't differ so much as I thought.

[Wanderer]

As regards the issue of the voice analysers, I think there is a slight difference in interpreting the rules:

As best as I understand the philosophy of Hero, Cellular just covers the case of the -microscopic and biological in nature- failsafe markers of personal identity: DNA, first and foremost, and, secondarily, fingerprints. It is not necessary to affect voice pattern analysers, that are just a technological refinement (in game terms, adding Analyze to a Sense) of the Hearing Sense Group. On a more general note, I do not think it is correct to assume that adding Analyze to a Sense which is otherwise affected by Shapeshift should enable it to pierce the disguise (unless the Shapeshift SFX clearly calls for it, such as Disguise or Mimicry Super-Skill, as opposed to superhuman or magical body morphing).

E.g. no amount of image or voice recording analysis should enable to recognize a shapeshifted Mystica, T-1000 or Skrull. It might theoretically catch similarities or oddities in the body language or speech pattern (which are part of the character’s behaviour, and hence unaffected by Shapeshift).

Reasoning from SFX, as long as Hearing Shapeshift involves actual body change, the physical shape of the subject’s vocal cords does change, too, so no significant basic similarity in the voice pattern remains for an analyser to identify. Of course, the speech pattern may not change (unless the subject does a conscious effort to alter it, via Acting), but this is not what a voice pattern analyser focuses on.

Moreover, Hearing Shapeshift does involve some kind of physical change n the body’s shape, since the character’s signature to Active Sonar also changes, not just the voice.

[Dust Raven]

Sorry. I rather realized this, and edited my post. I don't differ so much as I thought.

Okay, sorry if I seemed a bit biting. I just reread my own post and thogh it might have been somewhat, well... biting.