CSL silliness.

[Gary]

Character A has a standard 60 pt multipower with 5 ultra slots.

60 Multipower reserve
6 u Attack 1
6 u Attack 2
6 u Attack 3
6 u Attack 4
6 u Attack 5

He pays 90 pts total, and has 5 attacks at the 12 DC level that costs 6 End per shot. So far so good.

Character B builds the following multipower:

5 Multipower reserve
1 u Attack A
1 u Attack B
1 u Attack C
1 u Attack D
1 u Attack E

He pays 10 pts and then adds +22 CSLs with the multipower for 66 pts. He pays 76 pts total. By using 2 CSLs per DC, he now has 5 attacks at the 12 DC level that costs 1 End per shot, is 14 pts cheaper than Character B's multipower, and more efficiently "spreads" (each DC traded translates to +2 OCV instead of +1 and doesn't cost End).

Has anyone else noted that 2 CSLs with a tight group is cheaper than +1 DC 0 End?

[ghost-angel]

What kind of wine would you serve with this cheese?

[prestidigitator]

He pays 10 pts and then adds +22 CSLs with the multipower for 66 pts. He pays 76 pts total. By using 2 CSLs per DC, he now has 5 attacks at the 12 DC level that costs 1 End per shot, is 14 pts cheaper than Character B's multipower, and more efficiently "spreads" (each DC traded translates to +2 OCV instead of +1 and doesn't cost End).

Has anyone else noted that 2 CSLs with a tight group is cheaper than +1 DC 0 End?

Sure, except that you can only double the DCs of your Attack Powers, so they will be at most 2 DCs. On top of that, you won't be able to increase the damage any further using Str or maneuvers (except using Martial Arts, I think, but that one isn't much cheaper than buying up your attacks).

[Gary]

Sure, except that you can only double the DCs of your Attack Powers, so they will be at most 2 DCs. On top of that, you won't be able to increase the damage any further using Str or maneuvers (except using Martial Arts, I think, but that one isn't much cheaper than buying up your attacks).

Ah, but you're missing the forest for the trees. You can simply have a 30 pt multipower instead with 12 CSLs. 81 total points and you get all the previously mentioned benefits.

The basic point is that 2 CSLs is cheaper than +1 DC 0 End and far better and more useful.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Character A has a standard 60 pt multipower with 5 ultra slots.
*snip*

He pays 10 pts and then adds +22 CSLs with the multipower for 66 pts. He pays 76 pts total. By using 2 CSLs per DC, he now has 5 attacks at the 12 DC level that costs 1 End per shot, is 14 pts cheaper than Character B's multipower, and more efficiently "spreads" (each DC traded translates to +2 OCV instead of +1 and doesn't cost End).

Has anyone else noted that 2 CSLs with a tight group is cheaper than +1 DC 0 End?

Thats if your GM is insane enough to allow this.

In general, CSL's are only allowed in limited numbers due to CV restrictions. I also use a House Rule that CSL's cannot increase the DC of an attack by more than double the base DC, irregardless of whether its a Hand to Hand attack or a Ranged attack.

[prestidigitator]

Oh, and +2 CSLs with a tight group isn't cheaper than:

1d6 HA; 0 End (+1/2); HA (-1/2) [7 Active, 5 Real]

so don't argue that one (okay, I guess with the Framework the HA might be more expensive, but only by 1 point).

[prestidigitator]

I also use a House Rule that CSL's cannot increase the DC of an attack by more than double the base DC, irregardless of whether its a Hand to Hand attack or a Ranged attack.

That's not a House Rule. It is standard (well, again we could do the whole HA debate, but whatever).

[Gary]

Oh, and +2 CSLs with a tight group isn't cheaper than:

1d6 HA; 0 End (+1/2); HA (-1/2) [7 Active, 5 Real]

so don't argue that one (okay, I guess with the Framework the HA might be more expensive, but only by 1 point).

It's cheaper than most attacks at 0 End. +1 DC 0 End generally costs 7.5 points. 2 CSLs cost 6 pts and allows you to use them for OCV/DCV if you don't need the damage.

[prestidigitator]

The basic point is that 2 CSLs is cheaper than +1 DC 0 End and far better and more useful.

That's true. Especially if you are applying it to a couple attacks. What do you think about "tight group" applying to all that stuff in the Multipower, though? I think in a Superheroic game I'd make you just buy those as 5-point CSLs of one type or another (after all tight groups, etc., apply more to a Heroic game that uses the Weapon Familiarity Table).

Anyway, this is just sorta the Str argument all over again. You can buy:

+5 Str; 0 End (+1/2); No Figured Characteristics (-1/2) [7 Active, 5 Real]

just as easily as the HA I mentioned; it applies to all your HTH attacks, and it is incredibly useful for other things.

[Gary]

That's true. Especially if you are applying it to a couple attacks. What do you think about "tight group" applying to all that stuff in the Multipower, though? I think in a Superheroic game I'd make you just buy those as 5-point CSLs of one type or another (after all tight groups, etc., apply more to a Heroic game that uses the Weapon Familiarity Table).

Anyway, this is just sorta the Str arguement all over again. You can buy:

+5 Str; 0 End (+1/2); No Figured Characteristics (-1/2) [7 Active, 5 Real]

just as easily as the HA I mentioned, it applies to all your HTH attacks, and it is incredibly useful for other things.

Every single official example character pays 3 pts for +1 with a multipower.

Did I ever mention that the Str rules were broken?

[ghost-angel]

Thats if your GM is insane enough to allow this.

In general, CSL's are only allowed in limited numbers due to CV restrictions. I also use a House Rule that CSL's cannot increase the DC of an attack by more than double the base DC, irregardless of whether its a Hand to Hand attack or a Ranged attack.

I have to correct this because I see all over the place:

"irregardless" is NOT (repeat NOT) a word.

The word is REGARDLESS.

yes, I know some dictionaries are adding the incorrect word - that's just proof that a language doesn't alway grow intelligently.

anyway, back to the cheese that is this thread. have a nice day.

[prestidigitator]

I have to correct this because I see all over the place:

"irregardless" is NOT (repeat NOT) a word.

The word is REGARDLESS.

yes, I know some dictionaries are adding the incorrect word - that's just proof that a language doesn't alway grow intelligently.

anyway, back to the cheese that is this thread. have a nice day.

Yeah, well I absolutely hate that -ly is being dropped from adverbs, but still find myself slipping and doing it too (you don't walk, "slow." You may be slow, but you walk slowly).

[prestidigitator]

Every single official example character pays 3 pts for +1 with a multipower.

Huh. I guess I've never paid much attention to that aspect of the official examples.

Did I ever mention that the Str rules were broken?

[Hugh Neilson]

That's true. Especially if you are applying it to a couple attacks. What do you think about "tight group" applying to all that stuff in the Multipower, though? I think in a Superheroic game I'd make you just buy those as 5-point CSLs of one type or another (after all tight groups, etc., apply more to a Heroic game that uses the Weapon Familiarity Table).

I use 3 point levels in a Supers campaign. However, we've also never permitteed CSL's to increase damage in a Supers campaign. [I thought that was a rule somewhere, but maybe it fel by the wayside an edition or two ago?]

[OddHat]

I use 3 point levels in a Supers campaign. However, we've also never permitteed CSL's to increase damage in a Supers campaign. [I thought that was a rule somewhere, but maybe it fel by the wayside an edition or two ago?]

In a Superheroic campaign, 2 CSLs can only add 3 Stun and no Body to a normal attack, or 1 body to a Killing attack, and the damage done can not exceed the maximum possible damage that could be done by the weapon, as per 5thER p.406. So, CSL Man is going to find himself doing much less body with his normal attacks, and topping off his damage a bit lower than he otherwise would.