Quote of the Week from my gaming group...

[Vulcan]

It's become very hard to find 'casual' SFB players. The couple I know are really hardcore about it, and no fun at all to play against anymore.

[Sundog]

It's become very hard to find 'casual' SFB players. The couple I know are really hardcore about it, and no fun at all to play against anymore.

I have a sunday group, we alternate between SFB and Federation Commander.

[Peregrine]

*wistful sigh* I miss SFB...

QFT.

(Oh, it's still out there and in publication. But try to find SFB players that aren't all about tournament play. Or find SFB players at all, for that matter...)

[Peregrine]

I have a sunday group, we alternate between SFB and Federation Commander.

Lucky (Sun)dog!

[Ian Mackinder]

Used to play SFB a lot, as did a number of friends. I dropped out just after Commander's Rulebook V1 for several reasons. Mainly because it became a classic example of 'Squad Leader Syndrome - so many rules that it became less about playing the game and mostly about which rules people could remember, and how well, and where they were in the book.

HATED the add-on ECM/ECCM rules, especially when they became standard. I think that is another reason I finally lost interest. That, and the publisher's frequent practice of promising they would NOT do certain things, then going ahead and doing it.

Fond memories regardless. Particularly liked the X-Technology rules - I was the group's resident X-Tech buff. Did a 1st-Gen X-Tech conversion (official rules - at the time!) of the Federation's Galactic Survey Cruiser design ("cut-down" variant of the Heavy Cruiser, optimized for exploration). By ghod, the USS Bonaventure was an elegant ship.

[Peregrine]

Used to play SFB a lot, as did a number of friends. I dropped out just after Commander's Rulebook V1 for several reasons. Mainly because it became a classic example of 'Squad Leader Syndrome - so many rules that it became less about playing the game and mostly about which rules people could remember, and how well, and where they were in the book.

HATED the add-on ECM/ECCM rules, especially when they became standard. I think that is another reason I finally lost interest. That, and the publisher's frequent practice of promising they would NOT do certain things, then going ahead and doing it.

Fond memories regardless. Particularly liked the X-Technology rules - I was the group's resident X-Tech buff. Did a 1st-Gen X-Tech conversion (official rules - at the time!) of the Federation's Galactic Survey Cruiser design ("cut-down" variant of the Heavy Cruiser, optimized for exploration). By ghod, the USS Bonaventure was an elegant ship.

Can't disagree with any of that. SFB and Squad Leader are of a kind in that regard.

And I loved the X-Tech stuff myself. I did a rulebreaker - an X-conversion of the Fed Heavy Battlecruiser. Beautiful ship; too bad I never got a chance to take her out for a run.

[Vulcan]

As much as I love playing SFB, my god is it a horribly complex game. Oh well. That's the price of being able to do nearly anything demonstrated in the shows...

[hfergus]

I used to play SFB a lot. Actually came up with my own large map stretegy game and wrote a program in basic to aid with it. And long, long ago, on another board that I posted as a Gorn advocate, I was asked to become the official Gorn advocate on that board. Declined. Did not have the time.

And I agree, the rules were complex, and I was the one who remembered them the best in my rather obsessed group. Hard to find players that do not take it waaaay too seriously as to the rules.

[Susano]

I used to play SFB back in high school. I was the Hydra and ended up cannibalizing some SPI modern aircraft combat game (I think it was Foxbat and Phantom) for counters (since they had various aircraft models all numbered 1-24). It was fun, but good lord, the Commander's Edition was way to complex for my tastes.

[Klytus]

I know SFB is still out there, but yeah, finding people willing to play with was neigh impossible once I got out of college. You think people balk at the size of ReFReD? You should see their eyes when they see the 4" D-Ring binder that is SFB.

[Susano]

Sort of like Car Wars towards the end of its life.

[Shadow Hawk]

What turned me of SFB was the "Arms Race". I got the game in the original 'Deluxe' edition, which came with a box. And in that edition, the best cruiser was the Federation's CA. We spent many hours trying to match/beat it with the other races cruisers, and were just getting to the point of inventing (on our own) what would become known as the Klingon Sabre Dance and the Gorn Anchor when the first expansion came out and solved the problem for us by giving everyone else better ships. The better ships, PLUS the better tactics we had developed meant that the Federation was at a disadvantage... and when we figured out the tactics for that, they came out with the second expansion which made those tactics moot.
Every expansion, every issue of Captain's Log, every time we turned around, somebody got a new ship/refit/rule change that totally altered the balance of power.
Add in the poorly written rules, the poorly written addendum to the poorly written rules, the final "we're never going to change this again" commander's edition, the also final "we're absolutely never going to change this again, this time we mean it" captain's edition, and the series of errata for the captain's edition which they swore that they'd never do...
(Oh, and my pet peeve: the Nerfing of the Federation. Because humans can't be the best at anything. And the ISC: let's design the tactics that can beat anyone, then give them the weapons they need to carry it out.)

[Greywind]

It wasn't about being the best. The dreadnought arms race explained it best. The first race to produce, led to the next race to outdo what it was going to face, and then the next race would outdo that model...

[Egyptoid]

from: MIDDLE EARTH D20

Here's why you know my character is a Barbarian :

last adventure we looted some stuff, one was shiny suit of chainmail,
which later after the heat of battle and escaping we appraised to be
bona fide dwarven mithril chain. So we had escaped with "the price
of the entire Shire" in our hot little hands. Now were nowhere near Gondor
so we went to the nearest Elven stronghold to get this thing into safe keeping.
Brame aka Gondor traded them the suit, saying he would require grand favors
later from the Elves for our characters and his family. Okay now you and I (OOC) know that the
elves would honor this, but not my character: he wants his share now,
and gets the elves to outfit him with some personal armor and minor magic items,
as well as new equipment and full outfitting, etc.etc.

Of course behind my character's back the Elves roll their eyes
and chuckle at the Barbarian swapping untold wealth for
a few trinkets he could touch right now

============================================

players got rooked by DM; wasted month in Elf land
Since we as players never asked any questions about "when do we...",
or like "how long till we..." or "how soon can we..." the DM ruled
that we had gotten all caught up in hanging out with our Elven friends.
So we lost a whole month there partying. Just like in the frickin trilogy.


=========================================
given without context:

"we're not gleemen, we have jobs you know."

======================================

Later back in Harad, we come across a hidden Umbar trading post.
there was free beer in the fest-hall, so my character settles down
for a long long party, while we wait for the caravans to come by
that we have to spy upon for our bosses.

here's my scam, simple and fun
cast delay poison on self, then challenge Harad bumpkin to drinking contest.

[Karma]

from: MIDDLE EARTH D20
here's my scam, simple and fun
cast delay poison on self, then challenge Harad bumpkin to drinking contest.

Wait... Oh DELAY poison. I thought you said neutralize poison and I thought "where's the fun in that?"

Oh and thank you for bringing the thread back on topic.